OOAK Table Tennis Forum

it's not a specific Hardbat tournament (so I might get away with my 802 OX...) but a Hardbat event as part of
the West of Scotland Open on Jan 29th- taking place in Glasgow (I live in Edinburgh)
details and entry form here (deadline is Friday!):
http://tinyurl.com/69sl57k

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FH: DHS Neo Skyline III
BH: Palio AK 1997 Biotech
Blade: YEO


http://www.murrayfieldtt.com | http://www.youtube.com/user/MurrayfieldTTC

I read the Tournament Regulations, it's not specified that the hardbat event is played with the US rules, so you might use your 802.
Is this tournament open to all players, and especially foreign players ?

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Hardbat France, the first French association to promote hardbat
http://www.hardbat-france.fr/

I don't know how 'open' the event is.
I have sent you a PM with the email of the organiser.

_________________
FH: DHS Neo Skyline III
BH: Palio AK 1997 Biotech
Blade: YEO


http://www.murrayfieldtt.com | http://www.youtube.com/user/MurrayfieldTTC

Got it. Thanks.

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Hardbat France, the first French association to promote hardbat
http://www.hardbat-france.fr/

First, some background giving the goals of the USATT Hardbat Committee.

Official Rules for Classic Hardbat Table Tennis Events
MOTIVATION: To define a game which:
> approximates as closely as possible table tennis as played in the 1930s/40s, before the advent of sponge rubber,
> is understandable to spectators,
> balances offense and defense,
> minimizes mechanical advantage due to equipment variation,
> minimizes deception to players caused by easily-produced intense spin,
> minimizes confusion to spectators caused by easily-produced intense spin,
> eliminates combination bats and the associated advantage of twiddling,
> fosters longer rallies than occur in sponge play,
> lessens the importance of serve and service return compared to sponge play,
> encourages participation by players of all skill levels,
> and therefore is uniquely enjoyable for players and spectators,
> and is not so restrictive as to be detrimental to promoting itself.

The following is from memory, so don't take it as gospel. The USATT Hardbat Committee initially tried to use a "mechanical" definition for what kind of pips rubbers would be allowed. But they soon discovered that such a mechanical definition allowed rubbers of a wide variety of performance characteristics, some of which wasn't considered very close to the way classic rubbers played. So they subsequently changed to subjective testing on the part of individual committee members. The members graded the rubbers from 1-4 with 1 being the least spinny and 4 being the most. Rubbers graded 3&4 were rejected and rubbers graded 1&2 were accepted. If a good replica for Leyland, Barna and/or Schlazenger rubber had been available at a reasonable price, they would have almost surely simplified further and only specified that one rubber. But as it was, they decided to allow those rubbers that behaved closest to the classic rubbers used in the classic era.

Of course, since none of these rubbers are "perfect", there is constant debate and criticism - especially since many modern hardbat matches do not look like the classic matches. Personally, I believe that blaming the rubbers is a mistake. I believe that we must blame the players. In the 40s and 50s, the best players in the world practices many hours a day using their hardbats. Today, we don't have any similar activity. We have essentially zero world class players committed to using a hardbat. And the vast majority of the good amateurs are not full time either. And the few full time hardbat players like me are simply not world class nor do we play against world class athletes. The forces in the game are not forcing us into all-round play as would be the case if world class players suddenly committed to hardbat only play. It's the players and environment that keep the modern hardbat game from being generally more "classic" in appearance. It isn't, IMO, the rubber.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

I've heard people claim that Dr. Evil is made from anti-spin rubber. I've seen claims that it is too spinny. I've heard claims that it is deceptive. I've also heard a good friend of Dick Miles and a top level hardbatter (2200+ USATT level with hardbat against sponge and anything else) say that Dr. Evil is the closest thing out there to Leyland. I believe a lot of these views are skewed by the manufacturer and distributor descriptions of the rubber. They try to sell this rubber as being "disruptive." In other words, they are trying to appeal also to the long-pips, medium pips and anti-spin rubber crowd.

In fact, Dr. Evil is disruptive to the typical sponge player. So is Leyland. So is just about anything that isn't inverted with sponge.

I use Dr. Evil. I consider it slightly more spinny and slightly more springy than the Leyland I have to compare it to. It is also harder. Leyland has a softer, deader and more "damped" feel than Dr. Evil. IMO, Dr. Evil actually plays much like Leyland. The problem is that it doesn't feel like Leyland when you play with it.

The USATT list is a necessary compromise. Many of the people who complain about Dr. Evil would also complain about all of the rest of the rubbers as well. For them, if it isn't Leyland it just ain't right.

As for the ebay rubber, that USATT approved. It seems to be made from the same basic mold design and is derived from the ATP Reisman rubbers. Those rubbers were originally supposed to mimic Leyland rubber, and they originally accomplished that - until they changed the mold to satisfy ITTF design requirements. So the ATP rubbers don't play like Leyland either. In fact, they play a lot like DR. Evil IMO.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

but... peacekeeper has medium pips. i could use that on the backhand with some other shorter pips rubber and twiddle.

shoot, now the USATT forum spies will find this post and de-legalize PK.

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SPW/Solo

Peacekeeper does not have medium pips.

CHEERS!

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Valor Champion (Hardbat)
FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com

I agree, it's a short pimpled rubber.

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Hardbat France, the first French association to promote hardbat
http://www.hardbat-france.fr/

PK has thicker base sheet.

The difference is when it is a "sancioned hardbat" tourney or an open ITTF event. Real hardbat tourneys have strict rules about what rubbers, same on both sides, colors, etc.