OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 22 Jul 2017, 14:19


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 13:45 
Offline
Secret Agent Double OX
Secret Agent Double OX
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10664
Location: USA
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 395 times
Blade: Tibhar CO-S-3
FH: Dr. Neubauer Leopard
BH: D.TecS SPEZIAL OX
I have two 3-ply Hock blades. One is labeled Hock No. 74 and the other is labeled Hock No. 72 (this one is a shovel style blade shape). I didn't like them when I tried them before, but that was with various long pips on the backhand. These are supposed to be slow blades, but I found them a little springy for playing frictionless style.

Anyway, after seeing the Patty Martinez video and reading that she was using a Hock blade on About.com, it inspired me to want use one of my Hocks (with appropriate hardbat rubbers) at my club in the near future against the sponge players.

Since I have mobility issues, I rarely go back to chop and mainly concentrate on blocking them down. Is Dr. Evil considered to be the best hardbat blocking rubber currently available or is there something else? And are these blades OK for blocking or more for chopping? They're humongous.

Image

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 

 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 14:46 
Offline
Hard Justice
User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2010, 15:07
Posts: 770
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 23 times
The Hock always was preferred by choppers and the oldest member of my club uses it for exactly that, but you did see Patty use it for anything but!

3-ply Hocks should definitely be slow enough for blocking, but also keep in mind that hardbat does not allow for an inverted rubber on the forehand for the attack, or for combination blades, so there needs to be some aspect of springiness for offense. You just can't bring your LP blocking game into the hardbat arena and expect to be successful, and if they were too springy for you with LPs, they'll definitely be too springy with hard rubber.

You may have some initial success blocking against opponents who aren't used to the type of ball that's being returned, but the possibility of variation with hardbat, and the control you can exercise on a block, is not the same as LPs, and IMO there is absolutely no way you'll be successful in 'blocking your opponents down.'

I've had to develop my game to being much more aggressive, mobile, more active and athletic on the defense, and crafty to start winning matches since blocking people down just won't cut it, but if you're intent on trying, just don't blame me for saying I told you so. Think about why you see hardbat players attack and chop, but rarely to never block unless caught off guard.

That being said, I found Valor Premier to be the best for blocking or any more passive shot since the pips are very soft compared to other hardbat rubbers. Dr. Evil has a relatively hard pip.

(Didn't mean any of the above in a bad or personal way; just giving my opinion clearly)

_________________
Nittaku Kamkit w/ Air Panamera OX
Tatco Hornet w/ ATP Leland Era


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 18:42 
Offline
Secret Agent Double OX
Secret Agent Double OX
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10664
Location: USA
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 395 times
Blade: Tibhar CO-S-3
FH: Dr. Neubauer Leopard
BH: D.TecS SPEZIAL OX
abdulmuhsee wrote:
IMO there is absolutely no way you'll be successful in 'blocking your opponents down.'

I'm sure I could push/block and pick hit through some opponents, but I don't doubt you're right that overall an inverted/LP setup is the best for my type of game. I just thought it might be fun to play a little hardbat with one of these Hocks.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 19:04 
Offline
Stir Crazy

Joined: 04 Oct 2010, 16:19
Posts: 928
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 17 times
mynamenotbob wrote:
I just thought it might be fun to play a little hardbat with one of these Hocks.

Fun is exactly how it sounds to me. Give it a try! We want reports of how you go. And more pictures would be appreciated too. :)

_________________
"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this"
Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 19:07 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31310
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1438 times
Been thanked: 902 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
They look in good condition... possible collector's items?

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 06 May 2011, 20:04 
Offline
Secret Agent Double OX
Secret Agent Double OX
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10664
Location: USA
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 395 times
Blade: Tibhar CO-S-3
FH: Dr. Neubauer Leopard
BH: D.TecS SPEZIAL OX
They're in decent condition. No idea how old or rare they are or what they're worth. I bought them because a lot of people have claimed this was the legendary slowest blade ever. Not even close and, as I said, it's pretty springy. For me it was one of those blades I hit for five minutes and knew it isn't for me. I was thinking about revisiting it with proper hardbat rubbers this time.

The other thing is the blade face is so large most rubbers won't fit. Most recently I tried the massively oversized sheet of the famous Dawei 388D-1 special extra large long pimples on one, hated that as usual.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 07 May 2011, 09:33 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 11:25
Posts: 110
Location: USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
The only hardbat rubbers that will fit both blades are Valor Premier and Butterfly Orthodox. Orthodox is the fastest of all the rubbers on the USATT Hardbat list, and has very little control compared to the others. It is a nice attacking rubber. Valor Premier has the best control and it is very nice for both a close to the table type game, and a traditional chopping game away from the table. Carlos Ko won last year's US Open Hardbat using Valor Premier. His hardbat game is close to the table block and attack from both wings.

CHEERS!!

_________________
Valor Champion (Hardbat)
FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 07 May 2011, 15:49 
Offline
Secret Agent Double OX
Secret Agent Double OX
User avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2007, 06:49
Posts: 10664
Location: USA
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 395 times
Blade: Tibhar CO-S-3
FH: Dr. Neubauer Leopard
BH: D.TecS SPEZIAL OX
gnopgnipster wrote:
The only hardbat rubbers that will fit both blades are Valor Premier and Butterfly Orthodox. Orthodox is the fastest of all the rubbers on the USATT Hardbat list, and has very little control compared to the others. It is a nice attacking rubber. Valor Premier has the best control and it is very nice for both a close to the table type game, and a traditional chopping game away from the table. Carlos Ko won last year's US Open Hardbat using Valor Premier. His hardbat game is close to the table block and attack from both wings.

CHEERS!!

Thanks. I've tried Dr. Evil on there. It was OK on there but nothing special. Is there much difference between red and black on the Valor Premier? I might get the same color for both sides.

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out.
| My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

No matter how good you are at something, there's always about a million people better than you.
Homer J. Simpson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 07 May 2011, 20:11 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 11:25
Posts: 110
Location: USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Red and black Valor Premier are the same.

_________________
Valor Champion (Hardbat)
FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 07 May 2011, 20:18 
Offline
Hard Justice
User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2010, 15:07
Posts: 770
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 23 times
Though you might as well use the same color since you can, unless you want to avoid any arguments :-).

_________________
Nittaku Kamkit w/ Air Panamera OX
Tatco Hornet w/ ATP Leland Era


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012, 10:38 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 20 Nov 2012, 10:27
Posts: 2
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
I was wondering if you still had those Hock blades? If so, I would love to have them. They are definitely MUCH slower than my LKT blades, but I love the control you get with them. The return speed on attacks is painfully slow, but I feel like they allow you the time to make more strategic placement.

NMHardbatter - Tony


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2012, 11:06 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 28 Nov 2007, 11:25
Posts: 110
Location: USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
nmhardbatter wrote:
I was wondering if you still had those Hock blades? If so, I would love to have them. They are definitely MUCH slower than my LKT blades, but I love the control you get with them. The return speed on attacks is painfully slow, but I feel like they allow you the time to make more strategic placement.

NMHardbatter - Tony


There's currently a Hock 74 on Ebay asking for a statrting bid of USD $195. By the time you read this that auction will be over. I make and sell a new handcrafted "version" of the 74 and 72 called the Valor Shark and VALOR Big Stick. The wood is the same but mine is newer and not as cured as the Hock. The shapes are similar but my handles are slightly different, although they are made of mahogany wood. Recommended rubber: Valor Premier. It is the most classical in the market and it will fit all the classical oversized hardbats.

CHEERS!

_________________
Valor Champion (Hardbat)
FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2012, 09:53 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 20 Nov 2012, 10:27
Posts: 2
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
I'd say good luck on trying to pull $195. Mine was in pristine shape and I got it for $20. I had a friend who also had a Hock 74 (with Valor). He bought his for $10. We play all the time, so when he destroyed his, I let him have mine...keeping it in the same playing family.

I wound up buying an LKT Toxic 3, and use Dr. Evil on it. Although I loved the control of the Hock, it was just too slow for my style. My first use of it was last night and I loved it. I beat all the opponents I played yesterday, ranging from 1600 - 1870. The guy I play with all the time was much tougher (only plays hard bat), and we went five games, but I felt like I was in charge. My true test will come tomorrow when I play against all my regular hardbat buddies. In the last year, they've improved a lot!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 23 Jul 2015, 00:07 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 26 Sep 2010, 00:20
Posts: 49
Location: Nebraska
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
gnopgnipster wrote:
The only hardbat rubbers that will fit both blades are Valor Premier and Butterfly Orthodox. Orthodox is the fastest of all the rubbers on the USATT Hardbat list, and has very little control compared to the others. It is a nice attacking rubber. Valor Premier has the best control and it is very nice for both a close to the table type game, and a traditional chopping game away from the table. Carlos Ko won last year's US Open Hardbat using Valor Premier. His hardbat game is close to the table block and attack from both wings.

CHEERS!!


I respectfully disagree, I have used most of the hard bat rubbers with the exception of Cobalt. From my observations Orthodox has the most spin and great control. Valor is very good and seems faster than Orthodox however I feel this is due more to the stiffness of the blade than the actual rubber.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Block with Hock?
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2015, 02:23 
Offline
New Member

Joined: 24 Mar 2015, 05:35
Posts: 10
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Blade: from Juic Smasher
FH: Yasaka A-1-2
BH: Yasaka A-1-2
I invite feed back on the following theory...about the usage of the word "control"...

Frogger on 22 Jul 2015, 09:37 described Butterfly Orthodox as a rubber with good "control" because it allows him to generate more spin relative to other hardbat rubbers.
This usage seems to be common on this forum and others.

I am starting to look for context to establish whether we are referring to "offensive control" or "defensive control".
Offensive Control would be the ability to generate spin and speed on one's own shot, i.e. Frogger's usage.
Defensive Control would be the ability to keep the ball on the table in the face of my opponent's spin and speed (I typically play with hardbat vs sponge).
It seems to me that Defensive Control would be enhanced by a rubber's spin-insensitivity and maybe even spin-reversal capability.
Slower blade speeds would contribute to Defensive Control.

Thoughts?

Also,
would a soft-feeling blade enhance Defensive Control? or Offensive Control? It depends?
Would a stiff blade enhance Defensive Control? or Offensive Control? It depends?

Whaddayu say?

_________________
Blade from Juic Smasher pre-made
FH and BH: Yasaka A-1-2


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next




All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: