OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 24 Aug 2017, 12:28


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2012, 02:34 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012, 02:21
Posts: 31
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Hi all.

I played table tennis a few years a go, and I would like to play again. I have read about hardbat, and I am very interested in it.

I live in Spain, where there aren't a lot of hardbat players. So I will play nearly always with inverted players.

I played with inverted FH and short pips (with sponge) BH. I attacked with both rubbers, with a lot of active block. I really like to block.

How could I play being a blocker with hardbat? I mean... Is this possible, or must I go into classical attack or defense style?

_________________
Donic Cayman + Xiom Vega Europe max. (FH) + Palio CK531A ox (BH)

Play table tennis and help animals!


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

PostPosted: 21 Jul 2012, 05:28 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5043
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 129 times
Blocking is an important skill no matter what style of play or type of rubber. Having said that, there are different ways to effectively block with each rubber surface type. Regardless of the rubber, it is important to make your block early, preferable right off the bounce. You get your best control of the incoming spin that way and will likely not miss blocking a hookshot. How firm or loose one holds the bat affects how the long or fast the ball will rebound. How much you hit through or move back or down on the bat at impact affects the rebound.

If I can say just one thing about blocking, one should learn to see where the ball is going, how fast it is going, the ammount of spin it has, move to the spot... so that one may BLOCK IT EARLY.

You get that skill down and the rest of the stuff you can do with blocking to mess with your opponents' heads will follow much easier.

_________________
Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P BH Nexy Elips

President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

Hit us up on FB or the Forum

Janitor at Nexy USA
http://www.NexyUSA.com
http://www.facebook.com/Nexyusa/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014, 06:22 
Offline
LP Collector
LP Collector
User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2012, 06:57
Posts: 1798
Location: Hampshire, UK
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Nittaku Barwell Fleet
FH: Nittaku Fastarc G-1
BH: Hellfire OX
What happens if you block too late? I was playing earlier this week, and was 'blocking' some feet behind the table - ie not on the half-volley, but basically putting the bat in the way with some angle so it went straight back onto the table. It was fairly effective.

Coach walked by and said: "you can't block from that far back... you have to counter hit it or chop it" and walked off.

I thought about it... is it just that the ball goes back to softly without much of a change, so really isn't very challenging for the opponent?

_________________
"When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the Way."

Read my blog: "LordCope's Latest Learnings Log": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24452


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014, 07:23 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2009, 06:17
Posts: 841
Location: Yorkshire
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Yin-He t2 modified
FH: t05 fx 1.9
BH: 388d ox
with lp block it off the bounce =more spin reversal , surprise effect and a shorter return which can be difficult to negotiate and gives you the` upper hand`briefly and a chance to take control of the rally,very useful against tricky serves

_________________
Modified Yin-He T2 Tenergy 05 fx 1.9/388d ox


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014, 08:16 
Offline
Hard Justice
User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2010, 15:07
Posts: 770
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 23 times
VeganPlayer wrote:
How could I play being a blocker with hardbat? I mean... Is this possible, or must I go into classical attack or defense style?


Hardbat is somewhat of a "jack of all trades, but master of none," so you really have to use a variety of skills to get the best results. Hardbat blocks aren't particularly good, fast, or deceptive, and it's mainly a reflex shot when you can't get a full stroke in. You might be better off with long pips or anti if you want to focus specifically on blocking.

LordCope wrote:
thought about it... is it just that the ball goes back to softly without much of a change, so really isn't very challenging for the opponent?


That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say :-). Blocking with hardbat isn't very challenging for the opponent, so you need to actually do a full stroke, such as a chop, to make a quality shot.

_________________
Nittaku Kamkit w/ Air Panamera OX
Tatco Hornet w/ ATP Leland Era


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014, 11:07 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5043
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 129 times
LordCope wrote:
What happens if you block too late? I was playing earlier this week, and was 'blocking' some feet behind the table - ie not on the half-volley, but basically putting the bat in the way with some angle so it went straight back onto the table. It was fairly effective.

Coach walked by and said: "you can't block from that far back... you have to counter hit it or chop it" and walked off.

I thought about it... is it just that the ball goes back to softly without much of a change, so really isn't very challenging for the opponent?


At some amature levels, there are players who succeed on some points playing exactly that way.

Why?

The player is expecting the ball to come back different. (He likely THOUGHT it would go somewhere and got into position / committed too early) This is where the ball does not bounce like he anticipated. Maybe he expected it to kick out some more, instead of somewhat stopping after the bounce, so he has to lunge, he is out of time, and tries to correct this on the fly off balance. it looks something straight outta Benny Hill Show. Blocker wins point and calls for medical assistance for his twisted, fallen comrade in battle.

Even some Div 2 / Div 3 players will miss a couple of those, but at that level, they will ruthlessly crush away such a ball.

That is why coach is on Lord Cope's case about blocking form half distance.

Another playing style of retrieving is based off of this concept... get back everything from distance, whether it is bumping it or fishing it, if retriever gets it back time and time again, opponent loses patience and attacks the wrong ball to aggressively/strongly and makes an error.

Some players can get to quite a very good level playing as a retriever or fisher from distance when they master touch, footwork, and can read opponents like a book.

So, I wouldn't call what you were doing worthless, but would advise in a friendly way that you are getting away with that shot where you could be playing a more effective shot.

When you block from any distance further than the bounce, you give away time (rather you are taking away LESS time form opponent and are no longer rushing him), you give away angles (taking the ball 1/2 meter further back takes away more than 1/2 of your possible return angles !!), and opponent could read half his smart phone text messages before needing to move and hit.

Those are likely reasons why coach feels the way he does and talked to you that way.

_________________
Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P BH Nexy Elips

President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

Hit us up on FB or the Forum

Janitor at Nexy USA
http://www.NexyUSA.com
http://www.facebook.com/Nexyusa/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014, 11:11 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5043
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 129 times
abdulmuhsee wrote:
VeganPlayer wrote:
How could I play being a blocker with hardbat? I mean... Is this possible, or must I go into classical attack or defense style?


Hardbat is somewhat of a "jack of all trades, but master of none," so you really have to use a variety of skills to get the best results. Hardbat blocks aren't particularly good, fast, or deceptive, and it's mainly a reflex shot when you can't get a full stroke in. You might be better off with long pips or anti if you want to focus specifically on blocking.

LordCope wrote:
thought about it... is it just that the ball goes back to softly without much of a change, so really isn't very challenging for the opponent?


That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say :-). Blocking with hardbat isn't very challenging for the opponent, so you need to actually do a full stroke, such as a chop, to make a quality shot.


It can get challenging for opponent when you master adjusting the looseness of your wrist at impact to drop it short or "kill" the spin of the loop. Those blocks can be very deceptive and are give a tough time for an attacking player trying to continue the attack, often failing right after one of those blocks, especially if it did not kick out or was shorter than expected and opponent is a wild joker who gets off balance trying to attack with too much power from an unbalanced position on his first loop.

A good blocker, whatever surface he uses can give fits to such a brain-dead attacker, no matter what his level is. Usually though, at the elite amature levels, the brain dead have been weeded out.

_________________
Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P BH Nexy Elips

President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

Hit us up on FB or the Forum

Janitor at Nexy USA
http://www.NexyUSA.com
http://www.facebook.com/Nexyusa/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2014, 18:07 
Offline
LP Collector
LP Collector
User avatar

Joined: 01 Aug 2012, 06:57
Posts: 1798
Location: Hampshire, UK
Has thanked: 255 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Nittaku Barwell Fleet
FH: Nittaku Fastarc G-1
BH: Hellfire OX
Der_Echte wrote:
When you block from any distance further than the bounce, you give away time (rather you are taking away LESS time form opponent and are no longer rushing him), you give away angles (taking the ball 1/2 meter further back takes away more than 1/2 of your possible return angles !!), and opponent could read half his smart phone text messages before needing to move and hit.


This is pretty much exactly what the coach was saying when questioning the hardbat setup. His view was that it's much harder to get the ball long, to put the player under pressure, slower in return, giving more time, and because of both, tending to land the ball somewhere in the middle of the table, giving all the angles in the world. I don't think he was saying it isn't possible to do that with my hardbat setup, but that I'm making life difficult for myself.

On my side, I think there are advantages and disadvantages to everything - I have better control and am less troubled by spin with the Dr Evil vs anything else.

_________________
"When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the Way."

Read my blog: "LordCope's Latest Learnings Log": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=24452


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2014, 01:56 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5043
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 129 times
Although there are players who can paly away from table with that setup and keep retrieving it deep and tricky, the other way to pressure opponent is to park at the table and block/counter off the bounce fast enough to rush opponent, but still keep it on the table. When opponent fails to drive it deep, you use angles and pace to pressure opponent. This is the bread and butter of tactics. Either block it close to table to difficult locations or short... or hit through the ball and apply time pressure. Not necessary to kill it, but a medium hit off the bounce does the trick.

Everyone should be free to discover and play the style they prefer and I fully support.

_________________
Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P BH Nexy Elips

President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

Hit us up on FB or the Forum

Janitor at Nexy USA
http://www.NexyUSA.com
http://www.facebook.com/Nexyusa/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2014, 07:44 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 05 Sep 2009, 03:59
Posts: 42
Location: Sacramento, CA USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 8 times
Having switched from inverted to hardbat, in my experience the one thing that I miss about inverted is blocking loops. With a hardbat, a powerful loop is difficult to block, because the ball is more apt to "slide" on the surface and lose control. With inverted, the ball sinks in and one can control the return and placement with an off-the-bounce block. This is why it is useful to learn how to chop against loops if you're going to use a hardbat against sponge.

_________________
www.hardbat.com
Reisman lives!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2014, 16:50 
Offline
Count Darkula
Count Darkula
User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 15:07
Posts: 17388
Location: Dark side of Australia!!
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 258 times
Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
FH: TSP Regalis Blue Max
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
As a pushblocker-cum-modern defender, blocking is my bread and butter on both LP and inverted sides...but more so on the LP side. Taking the ball early as Der said is important with LP to steal away their time and make the spin difficult for them. Getting the blade angle just right and the hand "softness" just right is a skill that comes with time and experience...and its never a done deal until the ball is safely landing on the opponents side (hopefully landing with something nasty in store for them :devil: :lol: ). However, I don't think hardbat setups use LP do they? As far as I'm aware Dr. Evil is about the closest rubber to LP that can be put on a hardbat. That said, I think the variety of rubbers that can be put on hardbat will have an impact on how to block...simply cos oils ain't oils. Most hardbat rubbers are SP to my knowledge and as such Sp is much more adept at attacking than blocking. Blocking (only) with them not only takes away their advantage, but gives the opponent a lot of the advantage. The only way I could see a blocking strategy succeeding with hardbat is to get very good at angles and drop-shots and to finish off pop-ups drawn that way with a good hard smash.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Sep 2014, 06:53 
Offline
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
User avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2007, 14:36
Posts: 5043
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 129 times
Der_Echte wrote:
Although there are players who can paly away from table with that setup and keep retrieving it deep and tricky, the other way to pressure opponent is to park at the table and block/counter off the bounce fast enough to rush opponent, but still keep it on the table. When opponent fails to drive it deep, you use angles and pace to pressure opponent. This is the bread and butter of tactics. Either block it close to table to difficult locations or short... or hit through the ball and apply time pressure. Not necessary to kill it, but a medium hit off the bounce does the trick.

Everyone should be free to discover and play the style they prefer and I fully support.


Hey Lord Cope, you remember the match with that C-Pen player with Short Pips I'm sure. That gent was a MASTER of doing this. Fully exploited angles to run me aorund if my loop wasn't deep and on my fast loops that were a bit dep, he active blocked FAST to an uncomfortable spot and it was in my bet interests to float the ball back to him low and look for another ball to attack instead of committing the equililent of suiicide in the point by trying to attack strong off timing and out of position.

You saw what havoc he wrecked with me and some other players in those situations until I could fool him on the direction of my attack. if I couldn't rely on my serves for a few points and a good chance to attack to unexpected location, I would have lost 0-3 or 1-3 vs him. If that player had any inclination to attack and half that level of skill doing so I would have REALLY been in trouble.

That C-Pen player's game evolved solely upon blocking right off the bounce and change the spin, timing, and location. He was damned GOOD at it.

_________________
Tibhar Kim Jung Hoon FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P BH Nexy Elips

President, Korea Foreign TTC
http://www.facebook.com/koreaforeignttc

Hit us up on FB or the Forum

Janitor at Nexy USA
http://www.NexyUSA.com
http://www.facebook.com/Nexyusa/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2014, 01:21 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 5834
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 686 times
Isn't this Gao Jun's game, as described in vivid detail elsewhere? Ultra-accurate penhold pips out block-defense, with sharp angles and merciless disposal of loose returns?

By the way - if one isn't playing in a hardbat tournament, one is free to make up a "hardbat" using long pips, medium pips or short pips in any combination as one might want or need (though it might not be strictly a "hardbat" anymore). In fact, there's nothing stopping you from adding sponge, or anti, or inverted... but then we're starting to deviate from the topic here, aren't we? ;)

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2014, 07:50 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 05 Nov 2012, 02:58
Posts: 509
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 55 times
iskandar taib wrote:
Isn't this Gao Jun's game


Blocking off the bounce? No, she plays "top of the bounce": on the backhand side "spin variation" active blocking and on the forehand side she drives with a very flat swing.

But "accurate" and "sharp angles and merciless disposal of loose returns", yes.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: