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 Post subject: hardbat thread
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2008, 17:02 
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Hardbat is great.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

It is so fun chopping down loopers with the dull thud of the ancient Hock and Dr. Evil! The game is so much more physical with many long rallies. I don't get many quick points, but that makes them all the better. I am just learning what I need to do to be competitive vs. good inverted players, but it is fascinating finding out what I can and can not do in certain situations, then unlearning when I find that the impossible is not so.

If there are any other hardbat players around here, please share your equipment, playing style, and any tips for hardbat strategy or strokes.

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blade BTY Photino ST/Palio HengDa #1 ST, fh Palio Macro ERA 42deg MAX, bh Palio CK531A OX

TT Armory, N. America Palio distributor. Macro ERA Tensor, Biotech rubbers, and more.


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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2008, 22:27 
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i hav e a ylt mastercraftsman blade which is a great blade to look at and to play with
it is head heavy and over sized
control is great it was designed to compliment the range of atp riesmann rubbers and as close as possible to the old rubbers
i wanted to try it as i play in a league with several hard batters and playing them is just good fun as points are played out and not just you hit i hit point over
it did help my game to a degree because i learnt how to play a more patient game and at last i was able to figure out what was going on
now i am going to use my YLT again with the riesmann on 1 side and a 729 804 anti spin on the other looking forward to that could be good


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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2008, 22:58 
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Trevor Runyan won the 2007 US National Hardbat Championship using a Valor American Chopper blade with BTY Orthodox rubber. (One national championship in my first year of operation as a blade manufacturer!).

I use a Valor Shark blade with Dr. Evil rubber. If you guys are interested in replacing your Hocks with modern versions check out the two I mentioned above, as well as the Valor Big Stick and Valor Stingray.

Hock traditionalists have told me that my blades are slightly faster but the control is same or better due to the larger sweet spot, and my blades have added an attacking dimension that Hock did not have.

One player in UK has abandoned his YLT for a Valor Big Stick!

Cheers,

Alberto
www.valortabletennis.com

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FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com


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PostPosted: 05 Jan 2008, 23:32 
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I use a cut down for penhold Butterfly Mazunov blade with Yasaka Cobalt X1 and X2. I play a pretty similar game when I play with short pips.

The great thing about Cobalt is that it's got a thick heavy base sheet so is pretty heavy and with a heavy blade I can get the weight similar to my sponge set up. The thick base sheet also is easy to glue and feels like thin sponge. X1 is much spinnier than X2.

I plan to upgrade to the spinnier Cobalt Alpha, which I've only seen available at Valor Table Tennis, but there aren't any hardbat events in my area.

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Jack Miller custom Kevlar/carbon Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3L 40 1.8 red
Nittaku Nodias 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Kevlar/carbon Chinese style penhold
TSP Spectol Blue 43 hardness 1.5 red
Air Scirocco SN 1.8 black


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 00:10 
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I've wanted to get a sheet of hardbat pips for my LKT ONE blade for some time now. It's really damn fast, to the point where I can get inverted level speed by just hitting with the bare wood. It'd be fun to see if I could still fish with hardbat. I'm sure I'd still be able to long distance drive pretty well at the least. :)

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Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 00:15 
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Hi agooding2, I make penhlod blades as well. send me an email.

Hobbes, try a real hardbat. I also have hardbat rubber.

Alberto

www.valortabletennis.com

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FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 00:52 
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I'm currently looking for a hard, fairly fast blade that is not too heavy for short pips play and inverted backhand, so I'll keep that in mind.

You'll work from tracings/measurements? I have a blade and handle shape I like already, but want something with a little bit more control.

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Jack Miller custom Kevlar/carbon Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3L 40 1.8 red
Nittaku Nodias 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Kevlar/carbon Chinese style penhold
TSP Spectol Blue 43 hardness 1.5 red
Air Scirocco SN 1.8 black


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 01:00 
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I played a guy rated over 1800 (highest 1900+) that uses hardbat. Won 3 of seven games. He told me his rating would not be that hi with double inverted because most people don't know how to play against hardbat. I started with hardbat in the 50s so I understood it well.
He was an away from the table (classic) chopper). However, if you got one a little hi (only a little) he could flat make bullets! If you could get your blade on the thing, it did not have much spin and was hard to get back and keep low.
These bullets were not done with a typical loop stroke, but with a slap type hit. Good hardbat players are good at these slaps. If you just use the same strokes you use with inverted, then you will have a hard time getting any speed. I played a couple games at practice using the backside only (Dr Evil) and my training partner had a fit. Completely took him out of his game.

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Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 05:05 
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I am working on those flat hardbat hits. It seems like if you slap the ball right at its highest point, you can smack the hell out of a whole lot of shots. I am also surprised that some people find hardbats slow. My hardbat is old and the wood is cracking, but when I want to smash the ball, the hits are massive, much faster than regular rubber for me.

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blade BTY Photino ST/Palio HengDa #1 ST, fh Palio Macro ERA 42deg MAX, bh Palio CK531A OX

TT Armory, N. America Palio distributor. Macro ERA Tensor, Biotech rubbers, and more.


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 05:11 
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gnopgnipster wrote:
Hobbes, try a real hardbat. I also have hardbat rubber.

Real hardbat? Sorry, but I'm not interested in playing shakehand hardbat. Unless you make square headed penhold blades (that's what my LKT ONE is), then I'll just stick with what I have. I'd be interested if you made a Hock-style construction blade in that shape with a fingerhook, though.

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Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 05:34 
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Hobbes, I make two different kinds of Japanese style penhold blades. I can make you one with Hock style wood. I use two differnt types of cork Japanese style handles. One for "twirling" type play, and the other for more traditional type play.

In my website I show two 10-ply Japanese style blades that are fast but probably heavy for your taste. I can make a Hock style using 3/16" thick wood to a square head. (See Valor J10, and Valor J10 Traditional).

Agooding2, I can also make Chinese style penhold blades using any of the woods in my website.
Cheers!

Alberto
www.valortabletennis.com

_________________
Valor Champion (Hardbat)
FH/BH: Valor Premier OX
Valor Kuruxu (Regular TT)
FH: Valor Premier - Sponge
BH: Globe 979 LP OX
http://www.valortabletennis.com


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PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 05:41 
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Another shot I like with the hardbat is the super fast, low, skidding power chop off the forehand. When someone hits me a heavily spun loop with lots of kick, I can let it drop and cut under it for big chop, or take it at its highest point and drive the ball flat with a chopping motion. I put a little sidespin on these, and the resulting fast, skidding no spin ball is pretty neat.


P.S.: I am still planning on buying one of your blades, Alberto, because my Hock is falling apart. I just need to play with it a bit more to determine how fast/heavy I want my new hardbat to be.

_________________
blade BTY Photino ST/Palio HengDa #1 ST, fh Palio Macro ERA 42deg MAX, bh Palio CK531A OX

TT Armory, N. America Palio distributor. Macro ERA Tensor, Biotech rubbers, and more.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 06:31 
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MJ,,,
Those "chop/smashes" are hard to return. :D

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Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 07:17 
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gnopgnipster wrote:
Hobbes, I make two different kinds of Japanese style penhold blades. I can make you one with Hock style wood. I use two differnt types of cork Japanese style handles. One for "twirling" type play, and the other for more traditional type play.

In my website I show two 10-ply Japanese style blades that are fast but probably heavy for your taste. I can make a Hock style using 3/16" thick wood to a square head. (See Valor J10, and Valor J10 Traditional).

Alberto
www.valortabletennis.com

Hmm, so you'd be able to shape the head like this? http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l25/H ... T_1385.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l25/H ... T_1388.jpg
And what would the exact wood construction be (like what is each ply made of and how thick would it be)? Do you carry wood pieces thick enough to maybe make a thick single-ply blade of a certain kind of wood?

_________________
Jpen: Galaxy 982 juniper 8mm- Darker Provine Tension-50 2.2 or Tibhar Torpedo Soft 2.2
Shake OFF: Galaxy T8 ST- FH: Darker PT-50 2.2, BH: Juic Varites 1.5
Shake DEF: modified Joo- FH: Reactor Corbor 2.2, BH: Globe 979 1.5


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2008, 07:54 
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gnopgnipster wrote:
Agooding2, I can also make Chinese style penhold blades using any of the woods in my website.
Cheers!

Alberto
www.valortabletennis.com


I'll let you know when I'm in the market for a hardbat. The Mazunov actually works quite well for me right now, but at some point I'd like to try the Cobalt Alpha as I think the Cobalt is the best hardbat rubber out there for an attacking player like myself. I much prefer it to NP8.

If I did order one, I would need it to have a blade and handle shaped like my favorite blade which has a 163-164 mm long head.

156 mm long (as the ones on your website) wouldn't do it for me, I need to be able to contact the ball further from my fingers, so any shorter than 160mm and I hit the ball too close to the tip of the blade.

_________________
-- Andrew

Jack Miller custom Kevlar/carbon Chinese style penhold
Armstrong Attack 3L 40 1.8 red
Nittaku Nodias 1.8 black

Jack Miller custom Kevlar/carbon Chinese style penhold
TSP Spectol Blue 43 hardness 1.5 red
Air Scirocco SN 1.8 black


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