OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have no problem with idealism. I just don't think that such a tight focus on rubber supports the ideal. As many people who admire the Golden Age point out, back then discussions revolved around technique, not gear. But what they often fail to mention is that any surface was legal then and that there was a fair variety of hard rubber pips arrangements and sizes. Nodobdy cared if your rubber was a bit harder or softer, if you had micro-pips or huge pips, or if you used an 11-ply blade. Everybody understood that such things didn't offer a significant advantage.

The simple fact is that some player using old Leyland or Barna had what was effectively anti-spin rubber (I've played against such dead spin "reversing" rubber) - and nobody cared. So to match the older ideal, all you need to do is eliminate super-spinny rubber from use. After that, yer done!!

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Does anybody know, if you can and if so where you can get leyland or barna rubber in the uk?

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Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.

Leyland and Barna rubbers are no more manufactured, it seems that the closest rubber is now the Andro Classic.

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Hardbat France, the first French association to promote hardbat
http://www.hardbat-france.fr/

And I see that is on the approved list on page 1 of this thread. Thanks Francis.

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Equipment Review Index
Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.

I can't say for sure, but I don't think Andro Classic is that close. If it is, then the Leyland I have isn't performing like new Leyland.

The physical structure of Andro Classic is the closest to Leyland of any currently available rubber, but I think the rubber formula is surely different. Keep in mind that Andro Classic is the same as "Barna Original", but "Barna Original" is definitely not the same as the original Barna rubber from the '50s. This is apparent just by looking at the red rubber which is very transparent and not opaque like the older Barna and Leyland formulations.

I have two sets of Leyland that is in pretty good condition and find that Dr Evil and ATP Reisman play closer to it than Andro Classic. Andro Classic has almost no "throw angle" and is the only hardbat rubber I've tried that will "continue" (commonly called reversing) when simply blocking a ball back. It acts a little bit like long pips when the ball is played gently. All the other hardbat rubbers will stop the spin and return an essentially dead ball.

Sponge players noticed this effect when I played with Andro Classic against them. A fellow hardbatter also noticed that the ball comes off of the racket differently. Interestingly, I also found that I could put more topspin on a firmly stroked ball using Andro Classic than I could with Dr. Evil or ATP Reisman. You could see a noticeably sharper dive into the table as well as a sharper jump forward after hitting.

It is a decent rubber, but is the most unlike all the others rubber of any that I've tried and I think it is potentially the most "tricky" of all of the hardbat rubbers I've tried.

FWIW, here's a comparison with each rubber photographed at precisely the same magnification. I had to enhance the contrast for the Andro Classic image because the rubber is so transparent that the light shines through and makes the pips hard to see. The cloth backing is easily visible from the front. You can see how the rubber material for the ATP Prototype rubber has an opaque looke that is much like that of Leyland rubber.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Wow! Great post wturber. How do you rate all these rubbers in terms of speed?

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My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

By saying that, I was refering to someone I know who's a specialist of hard rubbers, and he found the sensations of the Andro Classic very close to the Barna, even if the pips structure is different.

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Hardbat France, the first French association to promote hardbat
http://www.hardbat-france.fr/

I've heard others say the same, but in the end I've got to go with my own experience. Steve Berger is a pretty good hardbat player with a nearly 2200 rating playing hardbat against the open field in the U.S. He used to train (maybe still does) with Marty Reisman. Back in 2006 when the hardbat committee approved Dr. Evil, he had this to say about it.

" I have to tell you that Dr. Evil IS the closest rubber available to the original British Leyland rubber that was available on the Hock rackets of the forties and fifties{closer by far than the "Reisman" rubber currently available}. I believe that all they would have to do to make it complete is to put the little "stipples" on the top of the pips and to put a thin muslin back on them and you'd have it. All that being said, it IS the closest anyone has to "Hock" rubber."

That jibes pretty well with my own experience - though I'd still hold my view even if Steve and similarly talented players disagreed. Andro Classic has a noticeably different character than Dr. Evil, the Leyland I have, and the other approved rubbers I've tried. It does have a feel on impact that is similar to Leyland. Both have a soft feel and a similar tone upon impact. So in that sense, I agree with your expert friend. But the ball plays off of the rubber differently, not similarly. OTOH, Dr. Evil has a different "feel" and tone when it contacts the racket, but IMO, the ball comes off of the rubber very similarly to the Leyland I have.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

Dr. Evil is probably the slowest and the hardest. Peacekeeper may be a tad more like Leyland than Dr. Evil and seems to be slightly faster. But I haven't played with it a lot, so I'm not sure. I think the ATP rubbers play very similarly but are slightly faster and slightly more spinny than Dr. Evil, Leyland and PeaceKeeper.

Butterfly Orthodox is heavy, relatively soft and provides more spin. For someone coming from sponge, Butterfly Orghodox will probably make them more comfortable.

I actually think you can get more spin with Andro Classic than you can with any of the other rubbers. When I had it on a Valor American Chopper blade, it was able to get clearly more spin and jump off of the bounce with strong topspin shots than I could with my regular racket with Dr. Evil.

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Jay Turberville
http://www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist & Dr. Evil

When the USATT was reorganized, all subcommittees were reorganized too. We didn't even have a hardbat committee for several months until late spring. Our first meeting was at the U.S. Open. Several rules changes were crafted, and since then we have been awaiting approval by the USATT board. We also tested several new sheets of rubber (including PeaceKEEPER [not "maker"]), as well as retesting existing approved sheets. Hopefully we will be able to announce a number of changes soon. It takes time because we are officially "advisory", so we are stuck awaiting board approval... and I doubt that hardbat rules are high on the USATT board's priority list right now.

Keeping appropriate vintage rubbers approved is important -- many of the players in hardbat events use vintage equipment. As long as it is appropriate we don't want to make people go out and buy new rubber sheets just because theirs isn't made anymore. Do you really want to tell someone with a cherished Barna paddle that they can't use it in a hardbat event?

Sorry if we seem "universally screwed up", but we really are trying.

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www.hardbat.com
Reisman lives!

Hi Scott,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for the explanation. Sorry for the comment, but after all the problems with the ITTF and the USATT, table tennis ruling bodies are getting a dubious reputation.

I understand about keeping the old rubbers approved and I think it's outrageous that the ITTF banned Leyland. At hardbat.com, it listed that the last resolution involving hardbat rules was passed in 2005, so it seemed like nothing was happening.

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The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Welcome to the forum scottgordon!

You mentioned USATT board... what does USATT actually offer you to make it worthwhile to be part of them?

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