OOAK Table Tennis Forum

As I promised before, I am going to write on things you must know about long pimple rubbers. This report is a result of my little research which I carried out into long pimple rubbers. I have looked at many sources on long pimple rubbers and I am just trying here to present my information in a simplified manner.

All pimple rubbers have less grip than normal smooth rubbers. Most of long pimple rubbers have rough pimples that grip the ball, while some LP rubbers have smooth and grassy tops that do not grip the ball. The sides of the pimples vary in the same way producing similar effects in their grip of the ball.

The ability of pimples to bend when the ball is hit depends on their softness. The softer the pimples, the more they bend.The ability of the side of the pimples to touch the ball and affect it is based on the softness and the flexibilty of the pimples. This is why a soft and flexible pimples produce more spin variation than stiff pimples.

The width, density and the shape of the pimples are also important. The wider the pimples, the less they bend, so their sides have a less abilty to touch the ball and affect it.The more dense the pimples, the greater contact is made with the ball affecting more the spin on the ball.

The thickness and hardness of the sponge of LP rubbers are important too. The thicker and softer the sponge,the more the pimples sink into the sponge when the ball is hit.The pimples now have a greater ability to touch the ball and generate spin. The thicker and softer sponge also catapults the ball back adding some speed. LP rubbers without sponge do not have this effect and they are quite slow.

According to the the general principle about rubbers, when one spins the ball and the opponent does not change its spin, the ball will keep spinning in the same direction (the overall motion will be in the other direction).So, if you hit a topspin stroke, you will receive a backspin ball. Your backspin stroke will come back to you as a topspin shot. This is easier to do with long pimple rubbers than smooth rubbers.Apart from this, LP rubbers can kill, dramatically increase and reverse the spin on the ball.

Imagine you hit a topspin stroke and the LP player hits it back with a flat, non-brushing stroke. The pimples will bend in many directions and grip the ball as they spring back quickly into their position. This process will kill the spin on the ball. Therefore, the ball will come back to you with float or a lttle backspin.When the LP player hits the ball with a backspin style shot with a flat non-brushing contact, he will also kill the spin on the ball.The pimples bend all directions gripping the ball in a pincer-like effect before they spring back to their position. So, the ball will come back to you with little or no backspin.

When you hit a ball with heavy backspin, the LP player can also kill the spin. What he should do is to hit the ball flat without any brushing.The pimples will bend in all directions gripping the ball in a pincer-like effect before they rebounding into their position.The ball will come back to you with little or no topspin.When the LP player offers a backspin style shot with flat, no-brushing contact, the pimples bend in many directions and grip the ball quickly. They will kill the spin as they spring back to their position. The ball come back to you with float or a little topspin.

LP players, as explained above, will return most of balls as dead balls by eliminating the spin on the ball. When you play against these players, you might feel that the ball sometimes wobble. The general theory is that the spin on the ball will keep the natural path of the ball. The topspin ball tends to drop towards the table , while the backspin ball tends to rise.The sidespin ball curls in the direction of the spin. Thus the spin prevents the ball being affected by the air currents moving around the playing area.If there is little or no spin on the ball, the air currents affect the natural path of the ball. Air currents work with the gravity to force the ball to go down, while currents moving upwards or sideways will make the ball move up and sideways.So, the LP players can make the wobbling process really happen by killing the spin on the ball.

To increase the spin on the ball, the LP player will resort to a particular stroke. Imagine that you hit a topspin shot against a LP player.If the LP player wants to increase the spin, he will hit the ball with a backspin style stroke with heavy brushing The pimples now bend in the same direction(the opposite to the direction the bat is moving).So, when the pimples spring back to their position, they will increase the spin on the ball.The ball will come back to you with heavy backspin.Now imagine that you hit a ball with heavy backspin. The LP player can offer a topspin style stroke with heavy brushing the ball. The pimples will bend in the same direction and as they spring back to the their position, they will increase the spin.The ball will come back to you as a heavy topspin ball.

The above description should show that the LP players can reverse the spin on the ball than the players who use normal rubbers.They can reverse a heavy topspin shot to a heavy backspin return by offering a backspin style stroke with heavy brushing the ball. They can reverse a heavy backspin stroke to a heavy topspin shot by playing a topspin style shot with heavy brushing the ball.

I might have made mistakes in this report. If I am wrong regarding any thing in this report, please let me know.

Joola MC 1- FH GEWO Stratos Sound Max, BH Andro Roxon 450 Max
Donic Epox Topspeed- FH Donic Coppa Silver Max BH Donic Sonex JP Max

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S/U 1:Xiom Strato-FH Stiga Calibra Sound Black, BH Xiom Omega IV Euro Red
S/U 2:TSP Hino Carbon Power-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Roxon 450 Black
S/U 3:Donic Waldner Legend Carbon-FH Donic Coppa X2 Black, BH Palio Macro Era Red
S/U 4:Butterfly Gergely Alpha-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Hexer+ Black

You might have made some mistakes in there, but I'm not telling you where and letting you know ALL the secrets

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Nice revelation ! What's the mistake reb?

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Setup 1 : Bty Timoball Spirit Forehand : Yasaka Razka 7 2.1mm Backhand : Tackiness Drive 2.0 mm
Tenergy to Razka7 = more consitency
will try : TBS or JSH with Razka 7 and TSP curl Pr1; choppers dream?

Hi Najay: This article may be of interest to you
http://www.gregsttpages.com/gttp/index. ... nners.html

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Equipment Review Index
Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.

Ahhh now that would be telling...and I only said "might"

I played Najay in a "friendly" last night (after matches) and won it 3-1. IIRC scores were like 11-7, 11-1, 9-11, 11-4. Now he can work out what's happening with my LP as much as he likes in theory, but I'm not going to tell him what to do, cos he works it out quickly enough eventually anyway For so long he beat me more than I beat him, I am enjoying the change!

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I must thank emm21, antipip and Reb for their comments. Greg's article is really good, antipip. It explains quite well how long pimples work. His animated illustrations are excellent.

Reb, I was not serious when I played those friendly games against you the other night. Most of the shots I played against you were experimental. In all friendly games I played against you and the others, I experimented with some strokes which I had been trying to improve with the support of Robert Frank,Australia's number 4. Remember, I had many wins against your older partner at the same night. I also beat young Chris who gave you a hard time.

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S/U 1:Xiom Strato-FH Stiga Calibra Sound Black, BH Xiom Omega IV Euro Red
S/U 2:TSP Hino Carbon Power-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Roxon 450 Black
S/U 3:Donic Waldner Legend Carbon-FH Donic Coppa X2 Black, BH Palio Macro Era Red
S/U 4:Butterfly Gergely Alpha-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Hexer+ Black

Najay my friend, you are always serious when you play! (especially against me ) And after a hard night I was dog tired playing you and then Chris! And I beat Chris 3-2, albeit yes he did give me a hard time with his loops at times. I didn't get to see how you fared against him though. He is very good for how rusty he must be

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I didn't know that you were a mind reader, Reborn. Anyway, I can prove my point sooner or later to you.

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S/U 1:Xiom Strato-FH Stiga Calibra Sound Black, BH Xiom Omega IV Euro Red
S/U 2:TSP Hino Carbon Power-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Roxon 450 Black
S/U 3:Donic Waldner Legend Carbon-FH Donic Coppa X2 Black, BH Palio Macro Era Red
S/U 4:Butterfly Gergely Alpha-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Hexer+ Black

You should have played me last night. I was playing quite badly! But then I'm not sure that would prove your point.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

At the end of the day don't you just loop the LP player off? If he chops a loop its heavy backspin. if he blocks your loop its backspinny. if he pushes your push its no spin. Isn't that all you need to know?

You can loop lp players away sometimes.... sometimes not, it depends how they use them and how much bullshit they have done to the rubbers . If they are legit out of the packet and not one of the few elite lp players, then these days they aren't very dangerous. The very best lp choppers are able to send back heavy enough backspin to make the second loop not viable, if they are just blockers then that's not so bad

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TG3 / 802

Glad to hear the views of Corbonman and foam on LP players. However, I believe that you should change your game considerably to beat LP players since they use a totally different weapon to destroy your game. Therefore, I am going to explain some tactics you can use to beat these opponents. This explanation is based on my experience and knowledge I gained by studying some relevant materials.

All LP players try to wear their opponents down by being a brick wall while using spin variation and control provided by the pimple rubbers.Some of them try to slow down the game of their opponents and have more time to get to the ball.They all try to break the timing and rhythm of the opposition in order to achieve their goals. Therefore, you must try to prevent the LP opponents from achieving these goals by being patient and consistent. To do this, you must understand how LP rubbers behave and play your strokes accordingly reducing your mistakes.

Being patient,you will be able to show your LP opponent that you are mentally tough and consistent in executing your shots.This will frustrate your opponent since he/she will feel unable to break your timing and rhythm.You must expect long rallies because the attacking opportunities are not very frequent. In some cases,you must simply continue to push the ball back to the left,right and middle of the table until you get a right ball to attack,especially from their smooth side.Patience and consistency are more important if your opponent twiddles occasionally to chop and attack.

You must also try to break their timing and rhythm by placing the ball wisely and being aggressive as the circumstances allow you to do so. You must play your strokes aiming for the corners of the table. These corner shots will force the LP players out of their position making them unable to return the ball. The strokes which can be played to the extremes (close to the net, but at the side edge of the table) are even better in this regard. To cramp them, you must play some strokes aiming for their body,especially their playing elbow.These strokes will make them unable to return strong shots requiring them to step around.

Most of the LP players are backhand defenders who use their pimples to kill,reduce,reverse or increase your spin.Some of them are very good backhand attackers. To prevent the LP players from achieving spin variation and control, you must direct most of your attacks at their forehand side where they use smooth rubbers.These strokes will force them to move to their right enabling you to launch more attacks to their backhand.

You can force the LP players to open their forehand side for your attacks in two ways. Firstly, by serving long to the extreme left side of the table, you will get returns with no spin or faint bit of topspin which you can send back to their extreme forehand with speed and spin.Secondly, you can play high pushes with varied spin,especially with slow high topspin,to their deep middle backhand. These returns will force them to move to their backhand, opening up their forehand side for your attacks.

Your LP opponents will play most of their shots to your backhand hoping you will play weak shots or you will make errors.So, you must be able to return most of these shots using your backhand. However, your opportunities to play differently are not restricted.You can run around and play your forehand against these LP returns.You can hit a forehand loop or launch a speedy smash across the table to the left side of the table. You can also loop or smash straight to right side of the table or to the body or playing elbow of your opponent. These strokes will make the LP players unbalanced and quite frustrated.To make your LP opponent unbalanced, good drop shots from short retuns can also be played. Since most of the LP players are not good at coming in and out from the table, they will lunge to get the drop shot back. You can attack while your opponent is caught with his/her weight leaning too far forward.

It is important that you observe the direction the arm, wrist and bat of your opponent move in.You must find out whether your opponent is completely a flat pusher/blocker or whether the opponent can brush the ball in different directions.You must serve and play your strokes according to your observations. For example,if your opponent plays sort of topspin style strokes without much brushing, you can serve long with some backspin.The ball will come back to you with a little topspin which you can attack.If your opponent plays backspin style strokes without much brushing the ball, you can serve with heavy backspin.The ball will come back to you with float or little topspin which you can also attack. My point here is that you must try to get back the ball without spin or with whatever spin and degree of spin you are comfortable with. I can understand that this is not easy when you play against more advanced LP players who will try to vary and hide the contact they might make with the ball forcing you to play wrong strokes.So, the returns with uncertain spin must either be looped to the middle of the table or pushed back to the deep backhand of the opponent in order to prevent errors.

From my experience, I can certainly say that no spin serves and no spin shots work quite well against some of the LP players.As you know, LP rubbers are designed to kill, reduce, reverse or increase the spin on the ball.Therefore, if you give them a ball without spin, there wouldn't be anything to work with. In most cases, the ball will come back to you with no spin or faint bit of topspin or backspin enabling you to rally and attack at the right time.

I must say that I am not an expert on these tactics. Therefore, I might have made mistakes in this report. I will appreciate it, if you can show these mistakes and correct them.

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S/U 1:Xiom Strato-FH Stiga Calibra Sound Black, BH Xiom Omega IV Euro Red
S/U 2:TSP Hino Carbon Power-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Roxon 450 Black
S/U 3:Donic Waldner Legend Carbon-FH Donic Coppa X2 Black, BH Palio Macro Era Red
S/U 4:Butterfly Gergely Alpha-FH Gewo Stratos Sound Red, BH Hexer+ Black

But Najay, except for an occasional very heavy LP chop, it is possible to consistently and effectively loop virtually every LP ball that your LP opponent gives you - so why not just do this?

What sort of LP opponents are you playing carbonman? I don't come up against too many loopers who can consistently loop at me when they are dealing with being moved around the table, getting often short balls, having most loops to my FH that are too high smashed away, getting balls at different speeds sometimes even forcing a complete mis-stroke, etc. Unless someone is working with perfect footwork, perfect reaction time, and perfect 2 wing loops its pretty impossible to do what you suggest. I would say that what you suggest is really only available where the level of the looper is higher than the level of the LP player by quite a bit. My teammate are and I are a good example of this not being possible (demonstrated when we practice). He is a good 2 wing looper, quite consistent. I am the equivalent in an LP combo player. He can loop some of my shots sure (more than most can), but he still gets caught out by me varying the spin on the ball based upon how hard and how angled I've played the shot and what depth it comes to him. Sometimes this makes him have to chop, sometimes he floats the ball right off the table. Making him reach for a ball which he is trying to loop frequently draws a mistake in the loop ranging from too little contact or too little lift (ending in net), too much contact or lift (ending going long) or more angle than expected drawing a wide return. Perhaps you need to be more specific in your responses rather than making what seems to be elitest or snipy type remarks. Najay has put a lot of effort into what he has written and your responses can only be helpful if you can put a lot more detail into where he is going wrong, which he has asked for. Now I have detailed here the why not do this...I leave it for you to offer something more useful please.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

I meant no offence to Najay but I just think that he was over-thinking the matter somewhat and that LP are actually a lot easier to play than he and many people believe. My comments were meant to apply to the very common modern day attacking player who seeks to topspin whenever he gets the opportunity and who also has reasonable footwork (they were not meant to apply only to those upper-echelon of the sport). Such a player should be able to comfortably loop a moderate backspin ball or a no-spin ball and this is exactly what almost all LP returns are (as I have already said, the exception is the occasional very heavy chop which has to be treated with care). LP's don't have mystical powers and don't create create some magical new spin. Also, they are actually quite predictable. As I said: if an LP player chops a loop its heavy backspin. if he blocks your loop its backspinny. if he pushes your push its no spin.

My replies were brief and to the point but they were certainly not intended to be 'snipy'. I appreciate the effort Najay has put in but I think his approach is unnecessarily complicated. This is a forum after all and I simply responded to what he had written. Besides, Najay invited such feedback when he wrote: "I might have made mistakes in this report. I will appreciate it, if you can show these mistakes and correct them." Text only is a tricky medium, I usually just give people the benefit of the doubt.