OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi Tassie,

I have never PMed you to give support, but on the whole I tend to agree with a lot of your views. This doesn't mean that I never disagree with you. As far as the anti-ITTF-establishment views are concerned, I tend to give people on both sides the benefit of the doubt. Different environments, life experiences being brought to the melting pot only make it a richer brew.

I frequent (read only) a mailing list for IT items that is subscribed to by IT people and the "atmosphere" there can get pretty rank on the political side, so I would not criticise OOAK forumers for self congratulation on the mostly convivial tone of this little part of the interweb thing.

As I am a (lowly) accredited official, I tend to be on the side of the rules, be they good or occasionally bad in TT. I agree, for example that the current service rule is neither effectively enforced nor effectively enforceable in entirety. Also detection of boosting done by the player rather than by the rubber factory seems to be a nonsense. However it is only by highlighting such things that they can be changed. It does help though to have viable alternatives to replace or augment such well founded criticism or negativity.

As your about-to-be-former blog says: two heads are better than one. I hope they are still on speaking terms

_________________
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Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

I'm always sorry to see someone leaving, and since you've obviously already made up your mind I'm not going to try and change it.

Your final post is huge, and I'm not going to spend hours trying to address every issue, or trying to justify every thing that was done, but I do want to make a few points.

You draw upon two negative times in our forum (ie 2 people wanting to leave the forum) to try and justify your own decision that you wish to leave. Yes these things happen, and they do in any community or forum, but the circumstances were different, and there were many issues that you were not aware off. We have SO MANY positives in our forum, but it seems no amount of positives can be enough for you to outweigh negatives.

Yes you do indeed seem to have an obsession with MNNB, and you're once again making personal remarks against him instead of arguing the facts. If you cannot do this, you'll struggle to survive in any forum. Would anyone not be offended when you call his posts soul destroying or crap?

The bit about MNNB deleting post is simply not how it happened, and I've got logs to prove it. He did not delete posts outside his blog, but deleted some from his blog, which is his right. He copied the original content for the other moderators to see, which I've seen. Although you complain about bits being deleted there, these posts were so littered with negative and sarcastic remarks I did not have the time nor inclination to try and restore it (which is my fault not his). He did copy some of the bits in a separate thread (which he did not have to do since people have the right to delete stuff from their personal blogs), and for that you're accusing him of 'taking credit' for another thread? Considering his number of posts, do you really think he needs the credit?

I would also like to point out that on several occasions I've recommended that you do not post in MNNB's personal blog, because you know that he does not welcome your posts there. Yet you continued to do so on many occasions (and he tolerated this most of the time), but when he deletes stuff (for reasons outlined above) you cry foulplay and try to make a public issue of it. This says more about you than it says about him.

"Those of us who hold a different view are censored - we are not allowed to criticise because it is unfriendly."
I also take some personal offense to this statement. We've never tried to censor people's views as long as they argue the facts not the people with the different views. It seems that at times you were unable to see the difference, or could not contain your own emotions.

Although you're probably thinking I'm just taking the side of another moderator, I don't believe I am. I do try and make decisions that seem right for the forum at the time. They may not always be perfect, and may not always seem fair to everyone, but I do the best I can. It can be incredibly hard when those you consider your friends are involved. Unfortunately you can't always please everyone.

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I think tassie just offers a different view point which is important to all forums,
To me it is the adding of balance rather than if you say black ill say white, also I'm sure tassie's alternative views are well received by some of the less vocal posters, and in some cases I'm sure that other posters will agree or disagree on many of his posts and this is what a forum should be about.
Most of us have no involvement with the ITTF or even our own Countries controlling authorities but some posters just want to only ever say how bad they are run, rather than occasionally saying "thank you"

I never want to see any one leave here as we are quite small and don't get enough variety now and at the same time good not to have views forced down our throats
I also think that a blog should be a blog and not a forum or about Competitions/ tournaments around the World as it takes away from the OOKT forum

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haggisv - stop reading now cos this is a long post

Ok here goes. My own experiences ont his forum.

There have been three occasions in three years I can remember when I have crossed swords with forum members which has resulted in moderator involvement - and I hasten to add on none of these occasions was that forum member any of the people who you ask not to comment in reply to your post. On each of these occasion I found the moderators behaviour to be fair - even though I did not always agree with the outcome.

I have found this forum to be a place where personal opinions are asked for and expressed. Sometimes I take issue when opinions are passed off as fact, or as the voice of the majority, or experiences passed off as being someones own when in reality they are borrowed from others. And in those occasions where it bothers me enough I will ask a question to clarify my understanding of something or challenge the member concerned. And in doing so I've learned two things here
1. Fight the battles that matter to me -and which can be won. I know I've read recently it's better to fight and battle and lose than not fight it at all, but I tend to take a different approach - why waste time fighting a losing battle when the energy wasted there could have been spent fighting a battle which could have been won but was never fought because my energy was elsehere fighting a losing battle - if that makes sense!
2. Go into things with an open mind and be willing for my opinion to be changed by the discussion. You name MNNB directly in your post. My experiences with MNNB have been mixed. I have a lot of empathy in that my own experience of my own national associations actions and the impact of the ITTF decisions which filter back down through my national association to my own local league havae not always errr how can I put this - have not always been good experiences both in terms of organisational skills displayed by the national association and the decisions made and adopted at national association level which subsequently filter down to affiliated league level to be implimented or attempted to be implimented. And these experiences make me open minded to what MNNB posts. I also recognise MNNB raises a good many issues and questions and often does this simply by posting links or one liners to articles which by it's nature invites the forum member to investigate further and make their own mind up. Other times I think MNNB sails close to the line I personally draw for myself on what is suggested as fact and said on behalf of "everyone" and what is actually personal opinon.

However, although I'm sure forum members here recognise there is sometimes an uneasy "truce" between us, I certainly wouldn't say each time i log on to this forum "I do so obsessing about what landmines have been laid for me." Why? Well because I think MNNB and others have got more important things in their minds when they write posts than to try and provoke me. And if I think they are being sarcastic towards me, I either pm them directly or a mod - I don't linger on it and I don't hold grudges - lifes to short. So for me I don't find this forum "negative" or supportive of "negative" views. I find this forum a place where "alternative views", ones different to mine are expressed and supported.

You have been one of the contributors to these "alternative" opinion which has existed on this forum. I've enjoyed your counter balance to MNNB and others but I sometimes feel your acusation that MNNB and others as being negative and how it gets you down can also be applied to your own posts and how it makes me feel. By this I mean you spend so much time reacting to MNNB - you yourself have said you have an unhealthy obsession with MNNB - why?!!! Instead of spending so much time reacting to what MNNB has posted and entering into a merry go round of similar discussions, why not be proactive and post elsewhere the good things you see in table tennis - like in your own blog. You can do this type of thing without having to reference MNNB quite easily. You could have started more of your own positive threads which aren't instigated by something MNNB or others you mention. I would have enjoyed reading your threads, positive threads in their own right not posts drowned out in amongst "negativity". In that sense, it's a pity for me that you weren't more proactive rather than reactive.

And lastly this brings me to my experience of the silent majority on this forum. I seldom receive pm's from anyone here, either pro or anti what I think - I sometimes get thanks added to posts and they are duly noted and appreciated, but I don't post here to get thanks, or pm's I post to share my own experience and I recognise that many many other people here either don't have the confidence, or feel they have nothing extra to say or chose to hide behind others for whatever reason. And that's fine, this is a forum, it's each members right and choice to decide to post or not and what to post. But what I would say is that it took me many months to pick up the courage to post and when I did I found others on the forum who encouraged me to post further - not necessaryily directly in pm's but by the feed back and responses they gave to my questions. I think this forum goes out of it's way to do that - there are threads stickied about "introduce yourself", "threads about nominating members for "personal names" in their avatars as recognition for their contribution to the forum, the functionality to "thank" people for their posts and forum members who will make a determined effort to post a reply to someone new, to make them feel welcome - which is what they are.

As a forum we never will and probably never should all agree. Only through discussion and experience does understanding grow. We do discuss things on this forum and we do share experience and through gaining the confidence to post on this forum and spend time here reading threads I have learned a lot with the added bonus of making some friends - and for that I am grateful. And just because an experience or opinion may be different to mine does not make that opinion negative - it simply makes it different. If someone wants to constantly post what I perceive as critical comments about the ITTF here, let them. I do not want to be a member of a forum where everyone has to tow the "party line" or they are seen to be negative. And if someone wants to post positive comments about the ITTF here again let them - I may learn something from either of these two types of posts which may change my opionon on a topic.

In my personal experience whilst I've been here, I don't feel like the forum or certain members will turn on me or be allowed to treat me disrespectfully because a) I do know I can defend myself and b) I do know that the moderators will not tolerate behaviour unbecoming of a member on this forum. And if I do feel I'm being shouted down or "abused" then I have confidence that should I raise it with the moderators my concern will recieve a fair hearing - even if my concern may involve a moderator - and i mean any moderator. And I may find and accept my original opinon or perception of an event was itself wrong. That is my personal opinion based on my own personal experience. FACT.

You say you don't want people to try and convince you to stay so I'll end by saying this. For what it's worth my experience of you on this forum have been good. I like your enthusiasm. I like the diversity in opinion your posts bring. I like the discussion and issues your "healthy" conflicts with others can raise. As above I just wish you could have been more proactive and less reactive with your posts.

I have found this forum gives it's members a platform on which they can be heard. How we chose to take advantage of that platform is more a reflection of us as individuals than the forum itself. To leave this forum when in my opinion it offers you an excellent opportunity to be proactive should you chose to be so? That's a shame and a waste.

Good luck in whatever you chose to do in the future Tassie52.

I think this is a very interesting observation and probably deserving of it's own topic/thread. My only comments would be:
1. Is it the responsibility of the person who is including these types of things in their blog to post them elsewhere or is it the responsibility of other forum members to invest time themselves in finding information about these competitions and posting them themselves in the open forum rather than relying on the blogger to always do the leg work and
2. There have been occasions when someone has taken information from a post in a blog which they felt was deserving of inclusion on the main forum and posted it there.

I normally don't reply or post anything in others blog (not even in MNNB nor Reborns blog), but since you are going to leave us, I might as well do it.

I have left this forum once, older members should know the reasons and I will not say much here. Now, as one of the moderators, I have the constant urge to get in and solve the unhealthy arguments and I did it several times. I have seen the bitter exchanges between you and MNNB, but I have ignored them. I am not on anybody's side but I chose to ignore extreme views, period.

I joined this forum because I want to find information about long pips and like to exchange my experience with those who like to share their knowledge with me. And I have learned much about playing with pips and most important, I have made a lot of friends.

You are about the same age as me and Hookshot (well, hookshot is a little older than me), my advice is, take it easy, wish you well.

O Tassie...

I'll miss the times we got to battle back-to back, fighting what seemed like entire hordes of evil, only pausing to wipe the crap off of our boots that were constantly getting lodged in the butts of a couple of idiots. Seriously, it was always nice to have what seemed like a little back-up, especially when getting what I can only refer to as "ganged" by 2-3 moderators at once just because my opinion differed from theirs. I imagine that by the fact that I only come here if I actually need something, or to shoot the breeze with leatherback, means that these prevailing attitudes of certain members of this forum have won. While I deeply regret this, I have found a lot of peace in the fact that I do come here sparingly. It makes the overall environment much more enjoyable for me. I hope that you will be able to find the same tranquility in whatever new home you make for yourself.

--PP

_________________
USATT rating - 1971

just spent an hour trying to find out how to salute you via text....


...there is ALOT of girls in bikinis saluting if you google it....


anywho....

play on my friend

good people bad people
strong people sad people

play on.....

for the record Tas, I'll agree with a lot of what you've said. not always agreeing with the manner in what you say it - but your subject is sound.

The forum will be a lesser place without the differing of opinions - but I do understand that personality dictates when one can sit out and when one can't. I simply choose to leave all the crap that bothers me alone, unless it's particularly offensive.



From one of the old(young) hats here, farewell, and do find a way to get a hold of me if you come up to QLD, you might get me playing again.

best of luck.

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YOU stopped playing SHFS??!

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Sometimes Mods are like Politicians. They get too big for their own good and need to be replaced.

I was a mod on another forum some time ago and yes it can be trying at times. But, IMO you should never delete a post without talking to the poster before hand. I have had a few posts deleted off this forum and only one mod has ever asked me to do delete it. Well, if my memory serves me correct... he deleted it then explained why. Or I deleted it. I don't remember. The point is. He came to me and we talked about it. I'm finding there are some that will not do this. What a mod means to me is a person that will... get rid of spam, clean up words (no cussing), welcome and help new forum members navigate the web page, and help settle arguments among members. This is not a right to delete all the posts that you do not agree with.

On a weekly basis I would get in touch (via PM) with other forum mods and discuss any problems that might be going on. Spamming, negative post, double posting, ex. Do you guys do this? You should.

Like Tassie referred to me leaving. I did for awhile. But now that I do post again... it is very limited and only to some people.

I'm going to miss Tassie. We have a lot of the same feelings.

Cya bro. PM me if you want to be Facebook friends.

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