OOAK Table Tennis Forum

also check this viewtopic.php?f=39&t=19556.

aim to get somewhere what is shown, dont aim too high.. at im ranked 90 in the country out of 300-400 registered people...

dont mind the games played especially the last one( only the first two sets were recorded then the battery ran out), i was in zombie mode for those first two.

but dont try and imitate what im doing as a good bit of it is garbage. i think the 3rd video where im mostly slapping the ball is a useful technique(for backspin pushes) which i was practicing because i haven't , well practiced it in a while . but its a useful technique against light backspin/medium backspin strength . anyway msot of thsoe shots were quite wrong..

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my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

meh... AP tests this week, so cramming as usual....

but did get a chance to practice against my usual training partner (about 1300) with killer fast loops....
I noticed a few things:
-I keep missing the ball
-if I actually loop the ball, then I effectively end the game
-still can't counter loop very well, can't get the paddle where I need it fast enough
-I keep hitting the edges of the ball, or an area on my paddle where the ball kind of slips off

so I am satisfied with the amount of spin I can produce, now it's a matter of consistency

well, time to hit the books

_________________
Blade: Tibhar Defense Plus
FH: Tibhar Grip-S Euro Soft 2.0
BH: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs OX

too much angle if you are hitting the edges

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

F@@#$%%%%%%&#$%^$

anyways... noticed something: when I play penhold, I get spinny unreturnable loops but then the rest of my game suffers, but then shakehand is the opposite, I feel like I'm hitting the ball too much F#$%#@ so pissed off

_________________
Blade: Tibhar Defense Plus
FH: Tibhar Grip-S Euro Soft 2.0
BH: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs OX

Please note: I base the following on personal experience, and I'm a closet penholder. While my findings are real to me, they may be subject to individual variation, or for other reasons not apply to your situation.

Some foundation:
The wrist does not have equal mobility in all directions. The max angle is rougly 45 degrees parallel to the palm and 120 degrees the other way.

With penhold you can "snap" in the high mobility direction to make spin, and in some positions even add to that with an arm twist. Also, that direction of wrist movement seems to be powered by faster muscles.

With shakehand your "wrist snap" will (or at least it should) use the direction where movement is more limited (muscles weaker and joint stiffer in that direction). This has a few implications:
- The max spin potential is less than with penhold (greater effort required to apply same amount of spin)
- The optimal "window of impact" is smaller (so correct timing of your stroke is more important for generating spin)
- You need a more relaxed wrist to use the whiplash effect (with penhold the wrist snap is more of a forced movement)

Some advice:
If you want to try further to develop your shakehand loop, I'd suggest focusing on timing (impact at max wrist speed) and keeping a loose wrist.

You say little about how your other game suffers with penhold, and also I'm no expert on such grip style, so I won't provide specific advice.
For myself, I got my penhold grip corrected by a good penholder, which immediately improved my game. It was quite some time ago (around 25 years) so I won't attempt to forward what I was told. It would most certainly come out wrong. Rather, ask an expert...

I don't really use wrist with either grips... only with loop kills

_________________
Blade: Tibhar Defense Plus
FH: Tibhar Grip-S Euro Soft 2.0
BH: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs OX

what keme said makes sense and will help u.

anyway... the reason why the rest of your game suffers is becasue you are looping and looping usign a very wide and time consuming stroke( i do it to, which is why im trying to stop looping)

instead of trying to focus on looping the ball( well more like looping every ball) ( unless you want to play safely or play a safe shot or to mix it up) you gotta hit the ball.

he try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcyhtDOFIbg notice how he doesnt drop his right knee much or at all his arm does go down then he proceeds to simply

and here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z6AyEm8 ... ure=fvwrel you can see here that he definitely doesn't crouch/drop down for the shot instead he just bends his knees to help him transfer weight. and accelerate fast with arm and snap at point of contact

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

Right, wrist in general is used to change directions, not to add power or spin except maybe if you have a very contracted looping form like say Mizutani Jun. Power comes from your core(moves your body), secondarily your shoulder(moves your arm), and tertiarily from your elbow(moves your forearm). Wrist mainly adds additional fine control, and if you're using it as a significant source of power(speed or spin) then you're probably doing it wrong!

That's for FH, BH is different of course.

btw got anymore recent clips up yet?? keep us updated with video. its easier to decipher what needs doing

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

i should record stuff tmmr for a bit....if worse comes to worse I can use my webcam to record

_________________
Blade: Tibhar Defense Plus
FH: Tibhar Grip-S Euro Soft 2.0
BH: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs OX

spare 60 dolalrs and get http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-7-TFT-12-0-MP ... 606wt_1396

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-0-TFT-LCD-4X- ... 090wt_1163

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SVP-HDDV-5520-H ... 612wt_1396

or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DXG-579V-5MP-2- ... 2138wt_905


then spend the rest on coaching from someone who plays PH... shakehand players arent trustworthy enough regarding core PH techniques

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

wow that's hard... don't know any coaches who play penhold

_________________
Blade: Tibhar Defense Plus
FH: Tibhar Grip-S Euro Soft 2.0
BH: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs OX

do some research. post here and other TT forums asking if there are any near you. even if you have to travel some

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

i believe this is incorrect....for a high quality consistent loop wrist is required for every shot, loop, chop, serve, push....EVERYTHING....

the reason you cant see pros do it is because the motion is SO small and quick else they give away the position of their loop.....

I do agree that no forward power should come from the wrist, and it should all come from the legs and waist, but ALL the up power should come from the wrist....

the loop against backspin and topspin, your body and arm should move EXACTLY the same, no change. what changes is what your wrist does at contact.....up against backspin and forward against topspin....body the same....

I seriously don't think you should advice not to loop the ball. The less spin you make, the less your consistency will be.
This can also seen from one of your latest videos: you're slapping the ball to the net all the time when the "chopped" ball doesn't even have much backspin. You would do much better if you looped the ball instead of trying to drive it like Ma Lin with incorrect technique.
And if you really watch the videos, Ma Lin doesn't just slap the ball forward, his forehand stroke one of the longest ones in the world, starting way below the knee and finishing over and to the side of his head.