OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I've decided to start a new blog. It doesn't mean that I won't use my Modern Defense blog... It just means I'm trying something new...old. I was originally a two winged looper and tried to do modern defense for 2 years.

After 2 years I topped my highest rating using long pips but I see obvious weaknesses that I could easily not have using double inverted. Thus I am experimenting using a double inverted blade I used years ago and placed my normal forehand rubber (my favorites of the past two years) on both sides.
Also I found out I got another kid on the way and playing with double inverted is easier for me overall so I probably will stay at the same level for another two years but I don't really see that as a bad thing as long as I get to enjoy our sport once every couple weeks.

Does it mean I'll stop using pips? Probably not. Does it mean I may use double inverted in tournament? yes. We will see. I'll bring a camera to my first practice and let everyone in on the fun.

_________________
-Teddy

Congrats on heading for Fatherhood for the 2nd time Teddy!

Sorry to see you stepping away from the dark side, but I'm almost certain you will return at some stage!

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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Yes, again Teddy Congrats on the new looper in the wings. I chatted with Teddy this weekend regarding moving away from the dark side. After playing him for the last few years, I think he might try inverted for awhile. I myself will concentrate on my LP game. I am done testing blades and set-ups. I know what works for me and Im going to stick with it. I also have a double inverted set-up so we can do some drills. BUT>>>>I will unlease my new Vulcan Death Chop next time I go to the club. ***which will be thursday instead of Tuesday. ( must go to grandkids ball game) you"ll understand that move down the road. If you can make it on Thursday..great. If not post some videos. My "NEW" video camera so far works good and will use that on Thursday. Have a great week..and again congrats on the new addition coming soon. Teach them to loop well and often.


Peace GIG

_________________
*IT IS NOT LOGICAL TO PLAY WITH LONG PIPS*
THOUGHT OF THE WEEK: If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


New blade set-up... Nittaku Monophonic with Dawie 388d-1 ox and Big slam max ( really like this one) down to FH rubber selections--I like it better than talon
flaired handle and 90 grams

I wouldn't put it so far as to say I'm stepping away from the darkside. I would say I am toeing both sides. For example in a tournament If I know that a player is horrible against long pips I'll pull it out. I also plan to still play some with the long pips for fun but in order for me to progress further against the players in my area I am playing double inverted.

I also am open to the fact that it may not take. I maybe using long pips for the rest of my playing days. I really don't know. All I do know is lately my backhand has been wanting to loop again. I am a good twiddler but often I find myself in a point thinking I just missed twiddling by less than a second and would have rather had inverted... In fact a lot of the time I'm twiddling to inverted to cover up my long pips which is entirely opposite of the reasons most of us put long pips on to begin with.

I would say I am of neutral hue. Not against the darkside nor the light...
I would also say when I lose mobility... Long pips are a great friend to have.

_________________
-Teddy

ok. So far inverted on both sides is just as hard as playing with long pips on one side.

Reason being is actually not service return for me...
It is after I give a backhand loop I have a hard time getting into the right position for another backhand loop or block on the backhand side.

Also serves that work for me when I'm using long pips are not as effective because people use the same tactic and it will come to my playing elbow or wide backhand where I am not used to playing anything other than a chop or a miraculous long pip block... So whether I play inverted long pips or even short pips on my backhand isn't really a big deal at the moment.

Equipment wise I've discovered that using a defensive blade though is my best bet. They have bigger heads. I feel more powerful and the seem to give me a little wiggle room when it comes to accuracy of my loop.

I will continue to use a defensive blade. Probably my valor blade for chopping and I'm experimenting with a defense II with a short pip lately... I've just ordered a new sheet of challenger attack (which I use on another blade)... The idea would not truly be for chopping with this setup but mostly to block and hit. Chopping is doable if I am far back with this rubber and it is a fairly spin oriented short pip so I am able to use a loop stroke and be able to create spin with it.

I will chop for fun with long pips still but I want to develop a backhand that allows me to play my forehand more yet is consistent enough to win some points with using either blocks, hits, loops , chops. Any way possible.
Blocking probably will be the most important with the short pips. And should be easier to do for me than with long pips... The only thing I'm sacrificing with this choice is deception. Long pips make the ball do funny things... It will be less funny for my opponent but if I become very consistent as a blocker on the backhand it won't be very funny at all for anyone especially loopers. So here is the test. I'm gonna try it for 6 months and then reevaluate. If I don't maintain my level then it was never meant to be. It will be fun to try though.

_________________
-Teddy

Maybe try practicing more stuff which replicates game-like patterns and in this way your transitions from one shot to the next will become more fluent and natural (?). For example:

- you serve short chop, partner pushes deep and heavy to your BH, you BH loop, partner blocks to your BH, you pivot around and play a strong FH loop.

- similarly...partner serves short chop, you return short, partner pushes deep to your BH, you BH loop, partner blocks, you pivot to do a FH loop.

etc

Ok. So here's the update. I'm not going to post any video till september because I plan on playing my first double inverted tournament since 2009 at the Badger Open in Wisconsin. A few OOAk players should be there and I am aiming for the same divisions most likely.

It will be odd not chop blocking or chopping but I find that the double inverted game simplifies my thought process and I am able to keep up much easier footwork wise. To be a modern defenseman even if you block quite a bit requires much more demanding footwork and physical conditioning for me. I can't wait to see what happens when I don't have long pips to lean on for a surprise attack or an easy serve return when in a pinch.
Most likely disaster but this is about raising my game and I don't see myself getting past 2000 or even 1950 with long pips at least not in the next 3 years.

So till then practice will be mostly on:
1. service return
2. short game
3. 3rd ball attack utilizing my forehand and backhand.

If I do that I should be about the same level. However footwork changes are going to have to happen so I probably won't play a match for a month then play only matches afterward.

Wish me luck

_________________
-Teddy

Hey Teddy, control loop and smash them to smitherenes... then pop up here and talk about the bloody detail with horrible/graphic pics!

Look forward to seeing a positive report.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

Teddy and I chatted yesterday on this subject and since I do play him on occation
I also agreed that he go back to inverted and give it a chance to develope. Teddy has alot of good tools and good BH play and Fh attack Loop. However his thought process when playing with Long Pips is sometimes a hit and miss. It does confuse many lower ranked players ( me too on occation) but I think that for him to get over the 2000 hump with the time allowed is a near miss if he does stay with LP.
As I said before, it is not for everyone, but it can be fun. Myself I might also go back to my old winning set-up, Neo Anti 1.5. or have another blade set-up with Anti instead of LP. I also offered to train with Teddy as well. SInce I need work on my serve and 1st ball attack as well as changing tactics..this will benifit both of us.

*Still trying to trade days off so I also can get to the Badger Open

Peace GIG

_________________
*IT IS NOT LOGICAL TO PLAY WITH LONG PIPS*
THOUGHT OF THE WEEK: If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


New blade set-up... Nittaku Monophonic with Dawie 388d-1 ox and Big slam max ( really like this one) down to FH rubber selections--I like it better than talon
flaired handle and 90 grams

So with my limited schedule I decided to play the badger open with long pips. I beat everyone I was supposed to and lost to everyone I was supposed to...

Good thing is I bought a sheet of rubber for my offensive blade at the tournament. I am currently using a Jack Miller Custom blade that has limba- Carbon - Don't know what the middle ply is- Carbon- limba.

I used to use it when speed glue was around with Jo waldner 2.0 on both sides.
I then used it with tenergy 05 on both sides... which was less than controllable but used that for two years... add two years of long pips experience with other blades, and now I'm back with more controllable rubber.

Currently my forehand is Tibhar grip-s europe 2.0
and the sheet I thought to start out with on the backhand for control was butterfly tackiness chop 1.9.
It is soft and has good control which is what I need to redevelop my backhand with.

Going from a defensive blade to an offensive blade is interesting. I don't need to use nearly as much power, and the control is a little less which is why I opted to use the control rubber to offset the speed gained and to allow for easier transition.

A little history. I was a 1750ish two wing looper and decided to learn to use long pips two years ago. With long pips I generally beat 1800 and below players but I see the limitations for me so to improve I'm moving back to inverted permanently. After watching old videos of my inverted game I have a good over the table backhand loop, and backhand flip. I my forehand used to be more compact and more consistent so I'll work to get back to that.

Here's my plan.

For the next year I want to improve my pushing, and blocking on both sides.
Serve return, and 3rd ball attack off serves are also going to be an every session thing.

The reason I don't include looping on my yearly training goals is because looping is what comes natural to me.
I believe if improve my footwork and have a solid push and block then everything else will fall into place within the next year having march or april being my target date for our state championships.

I will start taping my sessions starting the next available session and will be open for constructive criticism.
Glad to be back in more ways than one.

_________________
-Teddy

Hey Teddy, you also mentioned getting a link to some of your games you might had taped while at the Badger Open. I would love to see those if you link them up in the future. There are plenty of guys at the club you can train with that are double inverted that will help you get your focus back on the type of game you want to play. remember I have seen you play with double inverted before, and your game is good. I know that your time is limited ( until you start training your kids to play)
Again if there is anything I can do to help you in training or multi-ball drills let me know.

Peace GIG

_________________
*IT IS NOT LOGICAL TO PLAY WITH LONG PIPS*
THOUGHT OF THE WEEK: If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


New blade set-up... Nittaku Monophonic with Dawie 388d-1 ox and Big slam max ( really like this one) down to FH rubber selections--I like it better than talon
flaired handle and 90 grams

I made an interesting discovery this week while I was cleaning my basement. 4 sheets of pips that I haven't tried on my custom blades so I slapped some on. 1. Globe 888 2. butterfly challenger attack 1.9 3. joola snabb 1.9 4. friendship 802 1.5

I tried them all on my robot, and brought them all minus globe 888 to club to try out this week.
Joola snabb was too fast and difficult to control. Maybe if I could control the block better it would be a contender because my backhand hits did not come back much.

Challenger attack played somewhere in between short pips and inverted. It was pretty easy to control but the roll shot was easier with friendship 802. I also noticed pushes from 802 were more difficult for my opponents to loop. Blocking was easiest with 802 and the counter was easier to do.

I like hitting with my backhand and if I work at it I think short pips will be a great weapon based on the lack of spin I am creating. I just have to not overuse my backhand. Again I am working on pushing and blocking, but I also am trying to work my backhand roll into the equation.

The biggest thing I need to work on is blocking. It is easy against lower level players, but 2000+ players who create great amounts of spin is different.

Any short pips players wanna give me a clue about blocking techniques? Also returning serve is fine but is there any extra techniques I need to learn that are different from inverted? I'm used to returning with inverted and long pips...
I am mostly pushing and rolling currently.

Seems like there is the least amount of instruction on how to use short pips.

anyway I'll stick with it for a while because it's still fun for me. If in 6 months I suck then I will just slap a sheet of sriver el on, but for now 802 1.5 lets me roll easily, counter, and even chop pretty well. Just learning more blocking techniques, and learning what shots I can hit will be it. The learning curve doesn't seem so huge at the time. So I'm pretty optimistic about this fun change.

Another reason I'm changing is because of 2014. I figure if I work my forehand loop and backhand block in order to finish the point with a backhand hit then it should be a pretty good game for the new plastic ball.

_________________
-Teddy

Blocking will be easier for anyone regarless of material if they stay close to the table, move to the ball, and block right off the bounce. Blocking at any distance further than off the bounce gives the 2000+ crowd too much time to make a stronger attack.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

Agreed. Off the bounce is probably the timing I am after.

Now when I do block off the bounce what are my options with short pips?
Also against super spin oriented loops how do I handle that?
Against super speedy shots how what's the best way to block with short pips?

Basically I have the timing. I just need ideas and ways to create variation with my block.

_________________
-Teddy

After hitting with Teddy for just a while and watchng It does seem that Short pips might work for you. You made some good shots with the rubber and I also know that SP is better to *SCRUFF* shot the ball against top spin. 802 seems to hit flatter and has that random spin cycle that cause me a little pain when I used it. I used Stiga Royal and challenger and did not have that issue. BUT...it does look like you might be made for short pips in general. Keep playing with it for awhile until you get what works.

Peace GIG

_________________
*IT IS NOT LOGICAL TO PLAY WITH LONG PIPS*
THOUGHT OF THE WEEK: If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.


New blade set-up... Nittaku Monophonic with Dawie 388d-1 ox and Big slam max ( really like this one) down to FH rubber selections--I like it better than talon
flaired handle and 90 grams