OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Who I am:
I have two persona - one is debater on this forum where I post as myself, the other is pathfinderpro - http://www.youtube.com/user/PathfinderPro - which I go under when I'm doing video work for my league. In this blog I'll mainly be "debater".

Table tennis playing experience
I've been playing table tennis in our league since 2004/5 I think. Prior to that I played local league badminton for about 16 years and only stopped playing when our club folded due to increasing costs of hiring the school we played at and work/family commitments of our team. If the badminton hadn't folded, I'd never have got involved with "organised" table tennis.

It took a year to find a club I wanted to join but since that time I've stuck with that club even though our league has had massive changes, the main one being the building of a purpose built table tennis centre which a lot of other clubs migrated to and now use as their "home" venue. There is a video which is posted on this forum about why our "league" moved to the table tennis centre and the impact it has had. viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2086&p=21886&hilit=preston+table+tennis#p21886

My club has two teams and ironically we are one of the few clubs who "play away" from the centre. I chose them originally because they were local and I could walk to the venue, but in the summer I joined they moved to a venue about 8 miles away from me! Fortunately I can drive. I started in the second team and spent 2 years playing in Div 2 (our league has three divisions - premiere, div 1 and div 2) learning how to play matches - which is totally different skill to learning how to play shots. A few years ago, due to club politics, our first team "left" to go and play at the centre and when they did so they took with them our clubs "premiere" division team place so our "B" team became our "A" team by default. Fortunately that same year, we strengthened our "B" team and with the league doing a restructure, they moved our "B" team up a division to Division 1. After two years playing in Div 1 we won promotion to the Premiere Div. Unfortunately part way through that season I broke my playing elbow badly. I missed the second half of the season. At the end of the season we were relegated. This wasn't because I wasn't playing but because our Premiere Division is much stronger than our Division 1 so there is a "yo yo" scenario - the two teams promotted are usually the same two teams relegated the following season.

Division one is where I currently play and I have no pretentions of being anything other than a competant Division 1 standard player at local league level.

The highlight of my table tennis playing career was representing Preston "B" team in the Lancashire and Cheshire Town Team league twice. It wasn't because I'm a good player, more a case of our top players not being able or, not wanting to play so I filled in. I only won 1 game out of maybe 12. At the time I didn't think it too much of it but with hindsight I realise now what an opportunity that actually was.

Organisational involvement:
Club wise, I've been a playing member, team captain, and now I'm happily back to being a playing member.
League wise, after a heated discussion with our league's chairman - who I hasten to add I get along with, we just don't always see eye to eye and both speak our minds - I was invited to join the league's committee. A case of "stop whining if you don't like it and come and do something about it instead". I was a committee member for 3 years. I left the committee about two years ago due to personal circumstances not related to table tennis. My 3 years experience was and still is an eye opener for me as I saw first hand just how much hard unpaid work is done by people to make sure the league keeps it's ETTA premier club status, matches scheduled, venues arranged, funding researched, disputes moderated, structured coaching provided, youth players supported in the leagues etc etc - the list goes on and on. Now, I maintain our leagues YouTube and Facebook pages, help out on a rota with running the social sessions and am co-opted on to the league to help out with other projects as and when required.

I have the upmost respect for anyone who looks beyond thinking "they are doing the league a favour by turning up and playing" and who is willing to put something back into their own local table tennis. In my eyers, these people are the real hero's of table tennis, not the pro's, nor the ETTA, nor the ITTF.

Style of play:
Has changed over the years - mainly as a result of breaking my elbow - but it's now reverting back to my prefered style of counter hitter after a successful follow up operation on my elbow this year to take the wires out. My style is now progressing to control and counter hit off backhand and top spin aggressive attack/block off forehand but I will change my game according to circumstances.

Equipment used:
Currently a Peter Freundlieb custom made blade with Yasaka Rakza 7 (Black) max FH, Butterfly Challenger Attack (Red) 1.5mm BH

I've always wanted a blade to suit my "style" and Peter charges a fair price for an excellent product. Apart from a short spell when I played in the premier league and was told short pimples wouldn't cut it in that division, I've always had short pimples on my backhand and for one season a few years ago I played short pimples forehand and backhand. Why short pimples on my backhand - because the guy that introduced me into league table tennis told me they would give me some control whilst learning and I've liked them on my backhand ever since.

Now I'm settled with my FH and BH rubbers - both the type and make - I go on court not thinking it's the equipments fault if I'm losing but knowing it's either my fault because I'm not using it properly or put bluntly my opponent is better than me. Knowing this is one less thing to worry about when I'm playing

Equipment used in the past
Way too much to list.

Reason for playing
Has changed over the years but currently in this order:
1. relaxation / stress relief - doesn't always work though
2. fitness
3. to improve and learn - I like the challenge

Reason for this blog:
1. I like to analyse results and match play but I often start to do that and then get side tracked or distracted. This blog will be a constant reminder and record, in one place, that I can refer back to when I need to.
2. I like this forum. I feel comfortable here and have made some very good friends here. It's time to try and give something back which I hope will be helpful, interesting or at least generate some thought about table tennis at a local / social playing level.

Caveat:
Because some people know which league I play in, anonymity will be difficult but I will not name my team mates nor people I play against nor teams we play against and if anyone from my league objects to a post I make I will remove the offending post or if necessary stop the blog.

Great you're starting a blog Debater! I hope you intention to update it regularly works better than mine.


Well said!

I would also encourage everyone to get involved in the club, and see if you can help out at least in a small way. Even if you simply don't have the time or too many other commitment, an occasional little 'thank you' or showing your appreciation to those that do run the club is something everyone can do and this takes so little effort! We all like to feel appreciated!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Our Winter league starts in September and ends late March, early April.

There are 12 teams in our division (Division 1, which is the middle division). Usually on a weekly basis you'll play one of the other teams in your division - that's a total of 22 matches for us. Mixed in with the league matches are a divisional cup competition open to teams from the same division and a second cup competiton involving every team regardless of what division you are in - it's handicapped to make sure the matches are close ie a team ranked in the top third of the premier division playing a team from the bottom third of division two will give the divsion two team 7/8 pts start - games played to 11. Doubles are not played in cup competitions.

Our team has 4 players and we rotate as only 3 play any given match. Each match consists of 9 games of singles and 1 game of doubles. Every player plays every other player. Players are ranked 1 - 3. This is what a score card looks like.



Prior to the start of our season, our captain had drawn up a rota of who was playing when for the upcoming season. As I usually work late Tues and Wednesday I asked to avoid fixtures played on those nights - teams play in the league on tues, wed, and thursdays and matches must start by 7:30pm. They typically finish between 10 - 11 pm depending on how close the match is and what the venue is. If I play on either a Tues or Wedneday I usually have to dash home from work, change, dash over to the centre and go straight into playing a match with little or no warm up. Result - I usually end up feeling shattered, hungry and depressed about the way I played

Our goals for this season are:
1. To stay up.
2. Have a good time.

Our first match this season was last week in the divisional cup. It was on a Tuesday so I didn't play. There was a committee meeting that night too though which I attended (Committee meetings tend to be monthly occurances) so after the meeting I caught the end of the match to support my team mates (we are a sociable team and will all try and support each other even when not playing). They played well and although some players were still rusty having not played for a few months prior to the match my team mates won 7:2 so we're through to the next round of the cup. A good start.

One of the good things about our team is that we all have different styles and use different setups. I use short pimples on my backhand, another using long pimples on his backhand and the other two players, although double inverted play differently. That means non of our opponents can get in to a rhythm against us.

League Match 1.

Last night was our first league match of the season. We were playing a team who were promotted from Division 2 at the end of last season having won their division without losing a match. It was also at a venue I've never played at before so lots of new things to get used to. We, I'm told, having strengthened our team off season, are one of the favourites for promotion. It felt like one of those nights when we had a lot to lose. I'd scouted our opponents before hand and knew what to expect - it would be a long hard night.

For once I arrived early and was able to get a good warm up.

My first match was against a guy who used anti spin on his backhand and an old sheet of inverted on his forehand. Before hand I fluctuated from feeling very nervous to very relaxed. I've had a couple of knocks with antipip, an old forum member here, who's a very good defender and will attack with his anti spin and this proved to have been good practice.

As it turned out, the guy tended to serve either top/side spin serves from his forehand side or backspin serves from the same side. The top/side spin serves had a lot of spin on and I made a few mistakes against it. I've found a lot of players who use antispin or LP's seem to have very spinny serves, almost as if they want to start a rally with lot's of spin so they can get their LP's / anti spin to work ie they're trying to dictate what's fed to their equipment so they can get the best out of it. For my own part, I pretty much limited my serves to variations of no spin, slight top and backspin combinations and focused more on the speed and placement of the ball. By being very very patient but still hitting when I felt it was right to do so I won the first two games against him. Unfortunatley he then started to be more aggressive with his forehand and punished lazy or carelessly placed shots from me and won the next two. Having been 2:0 up and pegged back to 2:2 brings it's own pressure but thankfully I started to be a bit more aggressive again (having been lulled into passivity) and won the decider. A good start against a wiley and very experienced and competitive guy who moved very well and made few mistakes.

I'll take that although being a counter hitter I tend to stand close to the table and I think against these types of players I really need to take a step back to give me the opportunity to play a wider variety of shots and place the ball better - sometimes close up I tend to simply react rather than think about what I'm doing - ok when there's pace on the ball but not when there is lack of pace and lot's of subtle variations of spin being put on the ball by my opponent.

2nd game was against another experienced campaigner and someone I knew nothing about as they'd changed their team. Thankfully I'd seen him play one of my teams mates first. He too used anti spin on his backhand but he used it aggressively with that strange flip snap wrist action which gets the ball seemingly skidding through but with little or no spin. After dunking a couple in the net I found the best thing to do was not to snatch at these returns or go at them too quickly rather roll them back in a controlled way and wait for the next opportunity to attack. He was a nice guy but made a few more mistakes than me and I won that match too.

3rd game. I'd seen this guy play once before at Preston Championships earlier in the year. He has LP's on his backhand and inverted forehand and was by far the most aggressive of my opponents with his forehand. The LP's were used to force a week return and he'd try and get his forehand in. I struggle most against LP players who use a spinny serve, then either attack a poor return to their forehand with heavy top spin or punch block throught a return to their backhand which then skids back at me. I lost the first game. I got told to be more aggressive by my team mates in the second and probably played the best game I've done for a long time and won it 11:1. However, he got some advice and came out more positive in the next but with a bit more consistency on the forehand side I was able to win that and the last one in a tight finish.

In between, me and a team mate won a tight game of doubles in 5. Our final match score was a 7:3 victory but the matches were harder than the final score reflects and we only finished at coming up to 11pm. We told them they'd have lot's of good games in our division, thanked them for their hospitality and confirmed arrangements for our next match.

An excellent start for us against a very experienced and awkward team who will give many other teams a hard time.

Observations:
1. I had more success flat hitting with my short pimples to their LP's/anti spin than top spinning with pace.
2. Need to take a step back from the table
3. Need to learn how to be more effective against top / side spin serves FH to FH corner
4. Need to learn how to block heavy top spin loops better - too many died off my pimples
5. Pleased with consistency and patience I showed - not something I'm known for.

Time will tell..... by the way, they say a video says a thousand words so maybe you'd find it easier if you just posted video's of your matches!

How did you do it?

In just a short time (1hr21 minutes), you have managed to posted three long posts (over a few thousand thought out words) with a chart, plus a short reply to haggisv, how did you do that? Fast typer?

Glad that you started a blog, hopefully with a video occasionally. You know, at my age, watching is much more easier that reading.

Touch type - Plan before post.

Unlikely - requires permission from all parties, doubtful that will happen.

Posts will be shorter - sometimes

As I it's unlikely I'll post videos of my playing season, this is something I've kept private for a few years. It was filmed back in Feb 2008 and is from a day long coaching session organised by our league and which was taken by Desmond Douglas. He's a great guy, very very patient and it was a real honour to get 10 mins with him one on one.

ed. Video removed.

Hopefully you'll be able to make out some of what he's telling me "soft hands", be proactive in my movement rather than reactive etc etc. At the time I think I was using a Hallmark Enigma blade with Spintech Dynasty on my forehand and 802-40 on my backhand.

The thing I remember most about this experience, apart from being really nervous and trying desperately to keep the ball on the table, was he kept telling me to stop bobbing up and down!

If anyone is lucky enougth to get the chance to go to one of these coaching sessions with him I'd really recommend they take up the opportunity. John Hilton also did a course for our league a year or two later with Brian Kean but unfortunately for us he didn't do the same one on one sessions Desmond did.

ive recorded a ton of games in my league. i usually ask and they usually have no problems with being recorded

_________________
my youtube channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/decoyla?feature=mhum

Main: / secondary / LP
Blade: DHS Hurricane hao/ Blade- Hurricane Hao 2
FH: Skyline 3(Blue Sponge)/ FH- Nittaku H3 pro
BH: Omega Asia/ BH- Calibra Tour H

Do you tell them you'll be posting them on the internet for others to watch and comment on and provide them with links to the videos so they can check they are ok with what you've finally uploaded?

At the level I play at some people are uncomfortable with others on the internet seeing them play. Although most people are nice, I've occasionally had to remove some offensive and derogatory comments which have been posted against matches I've posted on youtube in the past. That can be enough to put people off. Others may think it's a distraction being filmed.

I do ask when I film semi finals and finals for our league and occasionally people have said no, but at that stage of a competition people are usually proud they've reached that stage - in league matches it's different. I guess I fall in to the category of not being comfortable being filmed playing actual matches. Practice ok, but matches... and I think I'm not in the minority feeling that way.

I've started another thread on this filming "issue" here viewtopic.php?f=6&p=227550#p227550

Last night was my turn to be on duty with a team mate of mine at the table tennis centre for our leagues Friday night social sessions which are open to anyone. They start at 7pm and finish at 9:45 - cost is £4 or £2 if it's someone's first time. There are about 14-15 people who volunteer to be on a rota which is organised by one of our Committee members. It works out that I'm on duty usually 1 week in 5 or 6.

When you're on duty our job is to get to the centre early and set up the tables and barriers and also the seating/viewing area where parents can sit and watch thier kids and players either rest or leave their bags. We take the money, make sure people aren't left sitting out by themselves, play with anybody who asks us - regardless of standard or age - make sure people behave accordingly - can't have kids running around, or adults sitting on the tables and then wrap up the sessions and put the tables away. If people get there early they usually help us set up and if people are there at the end, they help put the equipment away. These sessions are great for introducing people to table tennis, and are very flexible so some people will come down and practice routines, others will play games and others just knock the ball back and forth with their dads (some of the kids are better than their dads . A couple of our coaches are usually there too so anyone who wants coaching can have it - no additional cost.

Very few if any of our premier league players come down to these sessions - probably because they tend to play in more than one league so will play matches 2-3 nights a week. However, we usually get some 1st and 2nd division players coming down who are a mixture of older players and juniors as well as members of the public who just turn up to play father and son, or to drop their kids off to play by themselves. It's great to see the kids and parents playing together and having fun. Our age range last night was from 11 or 12 up to 70 years old. Not many sports can boast that catchment group.

Our Chairman was also there last night and like most sporting clubs/leagues in the Preston area, we've been asked by Preston City Council, as part of Guild year, to put on an open day for the general public to "show off" our sport where people new to the game and who are curious about it can come down and see for themselves what it's like and have a go. It's also good evidence to support our yearly application to the ETTA to keep our premier club status mark - to keep that status requires continued activiities and evidence collecting of what the league does. He asked if I'd be one of the people who'd help him out on that day. Unfortunately I'm away so can't help but these types of events and open days are just another example of how much work volunteers do to support the sport and their leagues - which often go unnoticed by the majority of people.

Spent a lot of my weekend again researching hardware requirements for premier pro CS5.5 which is what I edit the table tennis videos with. As I mainly use AVCHD footage my laptop and external drive simply can't cope and I'm spending days just converting footage into formats I can barely edit in. Been like this for the last year - enough is enough. After months of research I've finally decided to take the plunge. Cost of upgrade is huge for me but so too will be the benefits in terms of time saved and ease/speed of editing and what I'll be able to do. We might complain about the table tennis EJ virus but chosing the right time to upgrade and the right computer components is an even bigger minefield. But, I need to get the plastic ball comparison sorted soon so decisions have to be made and a computer built.

Any idea on what tests or comparisions/imgaes you'd like to see for the ball. I've a few ideas but suggestions would be appreciated. Bear in mind I only have one and they are potentially "fragile". I can't use the TT Matic robot because I'd need multiple ball for that. I'll be comparing the plastic ball proto type to an old 38mm ball and a current "40"mm 3 star ball.

3. Need to learn how to be more effective against top / side spin serves FH to FH corner:
I somtimes use these serves particularly against lp to keep away from the lp and i`ve noticed that if the opponent is tentative against them their return goes into the net or into orbit,the ones that cope better with them play comitted loopdrives overcoming the sidespin and I can be in a load of trouble if they land em.

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Tsp Black Balsa 3.0 Tenergy 05 1.9 388d ox black

What sort of cost are you talking about for the software? Hardware prices tend to be on the decline these days, with leaps in performance as well. Perhaps the club might be willing to contribute, or perhaps they can buy a club copy of the software for anyone to use?

it's pretty hard to do meaningful comparision with a single ball... I thought about this myself when I got mine. A few tests I can think off:

1. Spin the ball on the table and compare to another 3 star ball.. see if you can notice and non-uniformity in the shape.

2. Bounce heights test for various heights, which simulates various impact forces

3. Grip on the rubber... put a series of ball in the robot, set to topspin. Look at the angle that the ball comes off. This is a measure of sensitivity to spin.

4. A similar test could be done to check how the ball grip the table.

5. Look at the spin before and after a spinny ball hits a rubber, which gives some indication of spin potential of shots like counter-loops.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Adobe CS is fairly pricey. RRP for Premiere alone is US$799, unless you are a student or teacher. Educational license is about US$450 for a "premium suite" which includes several titles (including Photoshop and Illustrator). There are also cloud versions of the software, with subscription at $50/month ($30 for educational users).

In any case, to most people I guess it is a notable expense. Also, license activation mechanism does not lend itself well to "license sharing". I believe it is still possible but fairly cumbersome, and would probably be in breach of license terms.

I am soon going to find out how enterprise licensing works ... (my employer just bought a bunch of licenses).

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My blog of failures, etc., also containing equipment list at "resurrection" (referred to in a few of my early posts), and my current lineup
Rating in the middle/low range in the region.
Moderating the LP Attacking subforum in the Technique section.