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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 03:24 
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It feel you're on your toes. Your Anti seems inexistant. From the FH you are more agressive and at ease. The anti doesn't do you any good. I didn't see any agressive shot with your anti. Are you more of a passive player with anti ?


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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 03:48 
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maddrag wrote:
It feel you're on your toes. Your Anti seems inexistant. From the FH you are more agressive and at ease. The anti doesn't do you any good. I didn't see any agressive shot with your anti. Are you more of a passive player with anti ?

I was more passive, trying to convert. For me aggressive shots are mostly attacks against backspin. But at practice I can attack loose balls that carries slight top spin. I will try to impart that to my game, but the Gorilla is more suitable for that kind of strokes.

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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 22:25 
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your f/h is good mate.why not just give dead balls and junk using a dead traditional anti.if the ball is lifted you can then kill with the f/h.
im sure you have tried this before though ;) best anti would be ok with that fast blade.neo and yap would be too fast.
i also like the way AA plays with the diabolic.I take it the new ball isnt cutting it with the diabolic


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 00:28 
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P.S: I never used anti except for this new Agressor MP that has long pips with an anti as the top sheet. With anti, can you chop a top spin ball ( put a lot of reversal), ( cut or chop block) or doing a block with a very closed bat ? I didn't see you doing these strokes and when you block a top spin in a passive way the ball tend to go over the table.

An other question : Do you use a robot or do multi ball with a partner or coach as the only thing I see in your video are game. Every time I use a new rubber I immediately try every shot at different speed spin,body position and motion. With a robot or coach multiball you can have similar ball as long as you want. I can spent hours to really make myself really aware what this rubber can and can't do.

For exemple, I try to do a block. First I just put my paddle vertically and not move the ball to see what is the ball reaction results with a neutral shot. Dependantly of the reaction of the ball I will ajust the angle or when to hit the ball on the fly path of the ball. Then I can change body position to see the new result and then the counter force I hit the ball, etc...

I note these reactions in a book so I have a place to look back and remember what I can do with this rubber. ( Many time in a match where I struggle I revised my note and funny enough I found some shot that can resolve my problems during a match) When I don't revise my book during a game and lost a game and then ask myself why I was not able to handle some opponnent shots I always asked myself why I didn't do this shot or this one or this one. This would have resolve the problem . I feel sometime really dumb to not used some shot that I can do but didn't think about it during a game.

If I try a shot and can't execute well during a match , you bet this shot will part of my next training. I'm not talking about wild shot that I use one time during a match. I'M talking about basics shot. They are so many shot that can be done with 2 different kind of rubber on a raquet that it take a long time to have them all in my game.

Knowing your opponnent weakness is good but knowing what shot you will use to exploit his weakness is also really important.

I hope this help. Give me your opinion.


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 04:53 
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+1 peterpong. FH is good AA. A dead BH setup will aid and complement your FH attacks as current BH setup with anti appears quite fast. Just my two pennies mate. ;)


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PostPosted: 24 Nov 2017, 06:31 
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I need to change some strokes, it does not work to passive block slow loops, those strokes need to be choped or attacked. I will work on that but it takes some time to re-program my spine :).

I do work with the robot, that is mostly how I decide what combinations to test further. But our robot only accepts old celluloid balls, that is a problem.

I change angle and bat position intitutive when playing, I don’t need to make special drills for that, it kind of works out by itself I think.

I have also tried Aggressor, and I might give that a new go later, but first I will try the Gorilla.

I will not go the way to classic anti I think. A return that is just dead is too predictable and easy to read and return for most of my opponets. I have met players with anti power and Bty anti special, and they just gives dead balls that is easy to attack. The Gorilla has less grip and is faster, that will cause more hesitations for my opponents. Or I need spin reversal.

Today I played an opponent who used Bison+ on a Dr N Kung Fu blade. He had used (a lot) of Der Materialspezialists cleaning spray on his anti. It was not removed and the surface was still almost wet. His spin reversal with the Stiga Perform ball was almost as Transformer with the old ball. Later, at home, I applied the spray (I pressed the button two times), then smeared it out with a cloth but only made sure it was evenly spread over the surface. Then I let it dry for a few minutes and then I wiped it with the cloth. I thin it made the surface less grippy, but I need to try it when playing. When I face the opponent who had used the spray today, the ball felt slightly greasy after a while. I mentioned it to him and he tried to remove some of it but there was still much more spin reversal from his Bison compared to mine. I am not sure if my way of using it (letting a thin layer dry and then polish it with a dry cloth) is legal. His way of using it is not legal I think. But where is the limit?

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 07:17 
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I played a league gathering this Sunday. I won against the one I should but I was all lost against players that I think last spring I would have had a good chance to beat. I had Bison+ 1,8 on Stiga Carbonado 190 and against a good looper I could not block at all. Most blocks went high and long. Some went to the net. If the hit the other side of the table he could just smack them away. With a slower blade I might have nailed a few blocks but he would have looped them past me nex time anyway. There just is no point trying to play that game with ABS ball. And I am fed up with the slow BH, I don’t seem to be able to learn how to fluidly twiddle and use inverted BH like Simon Huth.

Sooo... today I had my first session with a 1,0 mm Gorilla on BH. Still Stiga Carbonado 190. Pheww... tricky and fast. Drills went ok and I could block loops but they came back empty (ABS ball). Attacking back spin is soooo good with this, the ball leaps and the opponent often misses the ball because they misread the spin. Pushing aggressively is more tricky, they often go too long, into the net or too high. This is because the poor spin. Handeling long fast serves will be tricky, did not try it this session. Blocking a block after me FH looping was a little tricky , I tend to over do it and give the ball too much speed.

The rubber is sensitive to speed, or at least the speed you add. When returnikg serves, you must be active and do something. If you just hold the bat the spin will grip the rubber a little and probably gonto the net. If you try to do something you must be catious and not add too much speed, than the ball goes long. I was not ready for the fact that the ball goes to the net when returning a back spin serve a little too passive. The Gorilla is very different from Bison etc in this aspect.

Hopefully I will be able to have another session Thursday because I have a competition comming up this Saturday and I am going to use this setup :D. I will most likely be slaughtered and loose many ranking points :)... But I must give this setup a couple of weeks (or months). I think this is the way to go, at least if I am going to use anti.

But I must say, after one session, I am much more impressed of Sriram Sushmit :). And it is a lot of fun trying to tame the Gorilla :)

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 22:29 
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looking forward to hear about that setup more...i am thinking going the same route...

maybe 1.0 is too fast, sriram plays with 1.3...especially if you are playing with carbonado...

on the other note, what you must try to change is to return the serve like sriram...i have been practicing that for a while now...what i mean is to push it hard in a downward motion, like you are chopping it from afar...and open the blade a bit so the ball you are returning goes low and fast...that way the opponent cant attack it hard and you have time to prepare for a block...

and on the blocks, try to attack them a bit if the spin is not very fast...

post some videos so we can comment :rock:

edit: http://youtu.be/W7p9hN39eTk
"so in the video above, at times 6:15, 11:20, 14:35 and whenever he is returning the serve with an anti push, that push he make is so dangerous...

if you watch closely the ball just skids low of the bounce, like he pushed it with a very grippy/tacky chinese rubber...and the opponent dont have any option but to push it back or to lift it with a very heavy spin...and both options we love..."

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 22:38 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
looking forward to hear about that setup more...i am thinking going the same route...

maybe 1.0 is too fast, sriram plays with 1.3...especially if you are playing with carbonado...

on the other note, what you must try to change is to return the serve like sriram...i have been practicing that for a while now...what i mean is to push it hard in a downward motion, like you are chopping it from afar...and open the blade a bit so the ball you are returning goes low and fast...that way the opponent cant attack it hard and you have time to prepare for a block...

and on the blocks, try to attack them a bit if the spin is not very fast...

post some videos so we can comment :rock:


1,3 is faster than 1,0 ;).

Yes, I am aware of what you write, but it is more difficult than it looks, you have to adapt to incomming speed and spin for the service return. But I have only tried it for some 10 minutes yet :).

About blocking loops, you can do like with any frictionless, just hold the bat up and find the right angle. And you can move the bat upwards to make blocking more easy. And if the loop is not too hard you can almost counter attack, at least add speed to the block. But you can also chop block it, and then you return a heavy back spin, since Gorilla tends to add spin when chopping topspin or lifting backspin. Flicking back spin serves is very nice, especially if there is some side spin in the ball.

I am also a little curious about DMS Anti Speed... but for now I am all about Gorilla. I am thinking about ordering a 0,6 mm sheet. Then we also have the Grizzly that is easier to tame, better for attacking.

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 23:20 
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hm,

i am almost certain that the thicker the sponge the slower the anti gets, isn it?

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 23:24 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
hm,

i am almost certain that the thicker the sponge the slower the anti gets, isn it?


Not this one (according to Carsten Neubauer). It has not a dampening sponge, but a normal sponge. About the same speed as a Mark V or something.

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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 01:35 
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Knowing that the behavior of a rubber is the result of a combinaison of the top sheet and the sponge behind( or no sponge.) Both interact together and act differently depending of the speed, spin angle, body position etc.

By what you are saying it looks that the sponge behind the top sheet is little or quite grippy as the ball react sometime like an inverted rubber and goes into the net. what is the hardness of the sponge ? By looking at the video of sriram he can impart some grippy shot when receiving backspin. The racquet angle is wipe open and he slice the ball. The grippy sponge grip the ball and return it low with speed and the top sheet reverse the backspin into top spin. So it give a really low top spin with quite some speed. The sponge give the control, speed and direction of the ball while the anti give the reversal.

So more the ball goes into the sponge more it will behave like inverted. Like the LP TSP PR-4.

Look at a a match high level between sriram and maramatsu. Sriram just slice those heavy chop of maramastu like butter. Then maramatsu find that the return was light top spin and attack it with a drive top spin with a twiddling of his Backhand without needing to loop that much. You can really see how his anti is working. quite nice to watch.

Make test with robot or multiball and find the end result of different angle, speed, spin etc. Then you will be able to handle your racquet accordingly.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2017, 03:00 
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maddrag wrote:
Knowing that the behavior of a rubber is the result of a combinaison of the top sheet and the sponge behind( or no sponge.) Both interact together and act differently depending of the speed, spin angle, body position etc.

By what you are saying it looks that the sponge behind the top sheet is little or quite grippy as the ball react sometime like an inverted rubber and goes into the net. what is the hardness of the sponge ? By looking at the video of sriram he can impart some grippy shot when receiving backspin. The racquet angle is wipe open and he slice the ball. The grippy sponge grip the ball and return it low with speed and the top sheet reverse the backspin into top spin. So it give a really low top spin with quite some speed. The sponge give the control, speed and direction of the ball while the anti give the reversal.

So more the ball goes into the sponge more it will behave like inverted. Like the LP TSP PR-4.

Look at a a match high level between sriram and maramatsu. Sriram just slice those heavy chop of maramastu like butter. Then maramatsu find that the return was light top spin and attack it with a drive top spin with a twiddling of his Backhand without needing to loop that much. You can really see how his anti is working. quite nice to watch.

Make test with robot or multiball and find the end result of different angle, speed, spin etc. Then you will be able to handle your racquet accordingly.


Sorry, I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but all this is rather obvious to me. I have been experimenting with all types of rubbers there is for the last 8 years and I know (almost) all about how top sheet and sponges reacts together or alone and with different blades. In this post (and most posts, but not all) I am not wondering why things happens, I often know that very well, I just document interesting things or problems that occurs and how I plan to face the problems. Maybe it will be helpful for somebody else, maybe others can find short cuts with the help of my experiences.

But if you or anyone else knows any good drills for fast anti I am very happy if you could share. Or if anyone has any experience with this rubber at all, please share. I am wondering how 0,6 mm would feel compared to 1,0 mm (I will ask the company that soon). Or if the thicker would be better with more softness perhaps (both sponge and top sheet are rather soft)?

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 20:19 
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Just a short clip I put together from a brief test with the robot a few weeks ago:



I used the same speed on the robot alll the time and therefore the same spin. It gets jammed all the time since it does not like the slightly bigger plastic ball, very annoying.

BAck spin was best on Bison+, then Power Attack and last Gorilla (almost no back spin at all). I used a different blade (STiga CLipper CR WRB) for Power Attack, it is a little faster than Revolution and has a higher throw.

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2017, 20:38 
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Best effect Bison+ on the Revolution :up:


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