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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=21956		 Page 60 of 82
Author:  Def-attack [ 30 Jan 2018, 02:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Ndragon wrote:
I can see why you are having so much fun with this play style. It looks incredibly difficult though tbh, so many things to think about and not slow paced either.
I miss your chopping though :( have you fully given up on the modern defence style?


Normally you don’t get a lot of attacks at that pace :).

I gave up modern defensive more than 2 years ago, I did not have the patience for that style, I wanted to attack a little too much :).
Author:  Ndragon [ 30 Jan 2018, 02:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Def-attack wrote:
Normally you don’t get a lot of attacks at that pace :).

I gave up modern defensive more than 2 years ago, I did not have the patience for that style, I wanted to attack a little too much :).


Fair enough. I do try to be active as much as possible on the FH but I also LOVE a slick cut with the BH. That shot gives me the most satisfaction hehe
Author:  Lorre [ 30 Jan 2018, 21:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Def-attack wrote:
Now? Made public.


Can open it now.

If the ball grabs the rubber too much, wouldn't it be good then to lower the thickness of the sponge? That is if you want a game focussed on the anti.

Def-attack wrote:
I gave up modern defensive more than 2 years ago, I did not have the patience for that style, I wanted to attack a little too much :).


Yeah and I think I said it almost from the start he was too impatient to be a defender. But hey: wisdom comes with blogposts I guess. :lol:
Author:  Def-attack [ 30 Jan 2018, 21:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Lorre wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
Now? Made public.


Can open it now.

If the ball grabs the rubber too much, wouldn't it be good then to lower the thickness of the sponge? That is if you want a game focussed on the anti.

Def-attack wrote:
I gave up modern defensive more than 2 years ago, I did not have the patience for that style, I wanted to attack a little too much :).


Yeah and I think I said it almost from the start he was too impatient to be a defender. But hey: wisdom comes with blogposts I guess. :lol:


My wisdom now is HUGE :rofl: .

Thinner sponge is a good idea. And when I buy a new sheet I will probably try the 1,3 mm version. But being able to slow down the speed might be even more deceptive than not having any grip on the rubber... We'll see...
Author:  Def-attack [ 31 Jan 2018, 06:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
New session today. I had another approach to blocking ABS-ball with anti. I tried a little more like I did with Gorilla and Power Attack, a little like Sriram is doing. No passive blocking unless the loop is very hard (like in my clip with the robot above). So slight sidesweep, like Koki Niwa’s sideways chop block
(look at 1:45 in this http://youtu.be/5C-K9_xeM_Q ) or more like an ordinary chop block like with LP. That worked good and I could keep the ball low and with some mack spin.

Then I realised I could just punch the ball at highest point, almost like smashing it. I just had to have my bat in the right angle and hit the ball hard forward without changing the bat angle. This is almost the same as when blocking a very hard loop by holding the bat up, only here the speed comes from the other direction. I did not do any drills for the punch block, I found that out late in the drill and then we went for matches. But I will try it more later. I am not sure any other frictionless anti can do that, Diabolic has a soft sponge that bottons out and kind of make the rubber more grippy at that split of a second. Hard to explain... but it felt very promising! Really looking forward to next session :)
Author:  SuperHappyFunSlider [ 31 Jan 2018, 08:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Def-attack wrote:
New session today. I had another approach to blocking ABS-ball with anti. I tried a little more like I did with Gorilla and Power Attack, a little like Sriram is doing. No passive blocking unless the loop is very hard (like in my clip with the robot above). So slight sidesweep, like Koki Niwa’s sideways chop block
(look at 1:45 in this http://youtu.be/5C-K9_xeM_Q ) or more like an ordinary chop block like with LP. That worked good and I could keep the ball low and with some mack spin.

Then I realised I could just punch the ball at highest point, almost like smashing it. I just had to have my bat in the right angle and hit the ball hard forward without changing the bat angle. This is almost the same as when blocking a very hard loop by holding the bat up, only here the speed comes from the other direction. I did not do any drills for the punch block, I found that out late in the drill and then we went for matches. But I will try it more later. I am not sure any other frictionless anti can do that, Diabolic has a soft sponge that bottons out and kind of make the rubber more grippy at that split of a second. Hard to explain... but it felt very promising! Really looking forward to next session :)


That punch you are talking about my coach is showing me how to do with Rhino, only possible with the new anti's with a very hard sponge. it is HIGHLY effective but it's currently broken my stroke - sometimes I get it mixed up with the touch blocks and the ball goes flying :rofl:
Author:  Def-attack [ 31 Jan 2018, 19:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
SuperHappyFunSlider wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
New session today. I had another approach to blocking ABS-ball with anti. I tried a little more like I did with Gorilla and Power Attack, a little like Sriram is doing. No passive blocking unless the loop is very hard (like in my clip with the robot above). So slight sidesweep, like Koki Niwa’s sideways chop block
(look at 1:45 in this http://youtu.be/5C-K9_xeM_Q ) or more like an ordinary chop block like with LP. That worked good and I could keep the ball low and with some mack spin.

Then I realised I could just punch the ball at highest point, almost like smashing it. I just had to have my bat in the right angle and hit the ball hard forward without changing the bat angle. This is almost the same as when blocking a very hard loop by holding the bat up, only here the speed comes from the other direction. I did not do any drills for the punch block, I found that out late in the drill and then we went for matches. But I will try it more later. I am not sure any other frictionless anti can do that, Diabolic has a soft sponge that bottons out and kind of make the rubber more grippy at that split of a second. Hard to explain... but it felt very promising! Really looking forward to next session :)


That punch you are talking about my coach is showing me how to do with Rhino, only possible with the new anti's with a very hard sponge. it is HIGHLY effective but it's currently broken my stroke - sometimes I get it mixed up with the touch blocks and the ball goes flying :rofl:


Well, Diabolic has a very soft sponge...
Author:  SuperHappyFunSlider [ 02 Feb 2018, 09:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
I can't imagine the topsheet then! He was showing me the difference between "classic" anti and new style and why new style with dead sponge can be punched.

Hopefully I'll have a video for you soon as your videos are what I like to compare my improvements to :-)
Author:  Def-attack [ 02 Feb 2018, 16:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
SuperHappyFunSlider wrote:
I can't imagine the topsheet then! He was showing me the difference between "classic" anti and new style and why new style with dead sponge can be punched.

Hopefully I'll have a video for you soon as your videos are what I like to compare my improvements to :-)

Great!
Author:  Def-attack [ 09 Feb 2018, 07:53 ]
Post subject:  Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack
A new era is about to start!

I am just fed up with trying to adopt to the combination of frictionless anti and ABS-ball. I feel very grumpy when playing, constantly being angry at the ball and blaming it for horrible playing. Not everything is the ball’s fault but I just feels very off in timing and very unsecure when trying to play with anti and ABS-ball.

So.... perhaps my 2.5 years of anti-adventure has come to an end? Not sure yet, but after tonights horrible matches I really need something else to think table tennis is fun again. My first decision was to stay with my blade and FH rubber (I decided that a few moths back).

I am not sure what would suit me best, but I think some kind of semi-offensive and slightly disturbing pips would do it. I have a sheet of Neubauer Aggressor 1,5 mm, but I think I would be too insecure at BH blocking and counters with that. I also have a sheet of 1,8 mm Giant Dragon 8228A, a long short pip that I like. But there is not as much sink an deception there... I would like something in between, perhaps 563 or Neubauer KO or Gambler GXM? Dawei 388C is great: http://youtu.be/WxzS7ZE0DQs
Palio WP is also one I have tried. I have a sheet of 799 1,5 mm, but that is more grippy than GD 8228A. Perhaps the best would be to start with GD, I feel rather comfy with that one.

I will be playing close to the table, blocking and attacking back spin with BH, trying to get an opportubity to go for the kill with FH. But I also wants to attack or at least drive back topspins with BH. I need something (at least now in the start) that makes me feel secure with BH when I get attacked. That I did with the old ball and anti, but not now.

I could go double inverted, but comming from anti and pips before that, I am horrible at reading spin on serves... I need a little help there.

So.... any suggestions or words of encouragement? Or should I put up with the anti those last two months of our league? My team is in top position, and actually, I am at my highest ranking so far, even though I have lost quite a few matches lately, against clearly lower ranked players. But that is not the main issue, I need to feel that TT is fun when playing matches again... That was not my feeling last league gatering (last Sunday) or at our local old boys league tonight :(.
Author:  peterpong [ 09 Feb 2018, 08:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
well done with your ranking.I would stay with the combo till the end of the season.You can then try other rubbers.you may try stuff and then come back to the anti.Just keep an open mind.
Author:  Def-attack [ 09 Feb 2018, 08:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
peterpong wrote:
well done with your ranking.I would stay with the combo till the end of the season.You can then try other rubbers.you may try stuff and then come back to the anti.Just keep an open mind.


Thanks. That has been my plan up until last few days... not sure yet... it just feels so frustrating with the anti...
Author:  111Iceman111 [ 09 Feb 2018, 09:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
i hear you and i feel you man... :angel:

i am in exact same spot...and decided to play this halfseason with fanti until the summer brake and then try something different...

there was simply not enough time in this winter brake to adopt to some new rubber, even if that was Gorilla instead of ABS or Megablock...

i tried Gorilla, couple of ox lp, and sp...some of them are probably where i will settle, but as i said, i saw that the adjustment i would need to make to my game is to high and there was not enough time to do it in this short winter brake...
Author:  Lorre [ 09 Feb 2018, 19:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Never change during an ongoing league. That's just giving your opponents games because your muscle memory is unfamiliar with the new rubber.

As for choice of rubber: pro's are using flanti with good result, so it should be possible, but it's probably very training intensive. So if you go flanti route, be prepared for that. Otherwise do what all those wanna be pro's do: slap an inverted of 50 EUR with enormous boosting effect on your blade, close your eyes and hit. :lol: Seriously: pips will always limit you in your attacking way of play. You want to do it all (so including looping) and that's only possible with inverted.
Author:  Def-attack [ 09 Feb 2018, 20:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/at
Lorre wrote:
Never change during an ongoing league. That's just giving your opponents games because your muscle memory is unfamiliar with the new rubber.

As for choice of rubber: pro's are using flanti with good result, so it should be possible, but it's probably very training intensive. So if you go flanti route, be prepared for that. Otherwise do what all those wanna be pro's do: slap an inverted of 50 EUR with enormous boosting effect on your blade, close your eyes and hit. :lol: Seriously: pips will always limit you in your attacking way of play. You want to do it all (so including looping) and that's only possible with inverted.


Thanks.
I feel I might go with inverted later, but I need time to adapt and therefore SP or MP might be somewhere in between.

About keeping the anti... I play well at practice against my well known friends. But at matches I have troubles using those shots I can do at practice, there isn’t enough time for it. So I play much more passively at matches. And that leads nowhere but to an easily attacked ball for my opponennt to kill (since there is no spin in the ball). Therefore I figured that the best way to stay to the path I started this autumn, with an overall more aggressive game, is to use MP. This way I get the help I need for service returns, I can lift and attack back spin well with some wobbling effect, and I can block loops and keep the ball low. If I can put away some high balls to my FH that would be good. But keeping the ball low is the key I think. A more secure anti would do the same, but since there is no back spin in blocks any longer I don’t see any point in using that. An LP would be much better, but that would probably not work with my blade. And passive blocking with LP has the same problem as passive blockinng with anti, and learning chop blocking will take too much time. And I don’t want to go in that direction for the moment.

So I am pretty much decided for some kind of half fast, half secure allround but deceptive MP with about 1,5 mm sponge. At least I will give it a real chance. But, I might wait until late March when our last league matches are played.

Still, I am sooo fed up with my game where it is for the moment so I must at least have a whole session with MP soon, at least to show to myself I won’t be able to play good with it after just a few sessions....
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