OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Haha yeah I was thinking that... but in practice it'll feel great. Only in matchplay will it rear its ugly head, so I'll have to lose before I can forget about it!

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Soooo... I managed to record and upload a couple of games from last night's league match.

First one was against the league's best player. He's just back from Alicante - knocked out in the second round of the 39-49 band.


The second was against one of the league's top tier players. He's renowned as a phenomenal blocker and touch player... but obviously better when people are coming at him, rather than him having to loop.


Will add my thoughts soon, gotta go spend some time with the gf

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

You have developed a lot since couple years back. Back then I would have beaten you easily, but now we would have tight match.

Wilkinson game gave a good look of your (defence) play.

Good:

- strong forehand
- beautiful BH drive/smash
- good FH fishing
- fast and smart movement
- good fast high toss serve

Bad:

- Defence don't stand against higher quality looping. Not consistent or effective enough. (COMPARE: Here is my teammate 1800+ chopper playing with JHS+thick sponged pips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXAq3KFADjI )
- Table play remains mystery, but I guess that it's not your strong point.

You're missing my best skill Roy - my amazing wiggly shots!!

Thanks. You sum up my game nicely. I presume by "table play" you mean pushing etc? As yes, that is indeed the absolute worst element of my game. To be fair to myself though I have improved that area significantly since a year ago in the respect that I make fewer errors. My pushing is still ugly and often ineffective, especially if I'm running into the table from a chop, but with the thinner-sponged P1-R I was making a lot of mistakes and miscalculations here leading to tons of direct easy points for my opponents. That still happens, but less often. I now need to work on making my pushes actually effective rather than just padding the ball back on the table.

I just don't get the opportunity to practice my defensive game against good loopers. Our County has a lot of table tennis players but very few orthodox two-winged loopers. Loads of blockers, pushers and hitters... but very few loopers. Against Steven for example, his loops didn't trouble me at all. They're barely loops though, very little spin or speed. When I then come up against someone of Andrew's calibre, I really struggle. This is partially also because my pushes aren't as effective as they need to be.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I mostly miss a game plan against those good players. You don't need that against Pennan. He loops only with his upper body. That's why his loops aren't loaded. He's the kind of guy that gets injured once a year and eneds anger management the rest of the year!

Wilkinson, however, is a good and smart player. So one of the things I noticed immediately is that he didn't like heavy backspin deep in his BH. You've got to use that to your advantage. So e.g. mostly serve on his deep BH with different kind of spin and serve short to his BH, one he can't attack and start the rally. Occasionally serve to his FH to keep him on his toes.

I mean all kinds of shot above table with pips. Bumbing, rolling, dropping, swiping, lifting, blocking... Those are kind of shots that are done usually with ox pips, but I make same kind shots with sponged pips also. On the other hand, top defenders don't use table play much, as it's inefficient in higher levels. You can do well with push/chop only, but against some opponents table plays work well. Sometimes or even quite often, tricky table plays cost more points than they benefit me. But they are fun to play, inefficient or not.


I have same problem with p1r 0.5 and some other sponged pips. Maybe, because I am lousy at BH inverted pushing also. And that's why I lift/bumb most balls against underspin.


Yeah, that's serious problem. Our club chopper also complains that clubs best loopers don't practise enough against him.

I just thought I'd let everyone know that I got absolutely destroyed by a 15 year old this week -2, -5, -3

I came away feeling like he was cheating. Not because of serves or anything like that, purely because I couldn't return the ball! He got his fair share of nets and edges but none would have made any difference to the outcome.

He doesn't have a backhand but he's a powerful young lad and his entire game is oriented around a 3rd ball attack which is both quick and spinny. Worse still, every loop he played was on the white line. To chop his loops back successfully I would have to be very quick indeed.

The obvious counter to this is to make his 3rd ball more difficult... but I struggled with that too, despite trying a few options.

He served almost exclusively short backspin (varying strengths) or no spin to my pimples. When I returned these with the pimples, he destroyed them. When I twiddled to return these with my inverted, he played a slower but much more spinny (and still very long) loop. Unfortunately I also made a lot of returns reading the spin with my inverted as it's not something I often do on service receive primarily because I don't usually know where the ball is going and I don't want to get caught out playing pimple pushes on my forehand.

I tried to roll a few with the pimples but again I made a few mistakes as it's not something I usually do, plus the ones that I did get on he just crushed past me anyway. I also tried to serve to attack but every single serve either got attacked (if long) or pushed back to my backhand (if short).

So... how would you all have countered that?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Oh, might be worth noting that this is a player I beat comfortably 3-0 a year ago but at that point he didn't have his huge loop. I didn't underestimate him however because he's had some excellent results this season.

I was also playing well - my last match of the evening which is usually my best and I'd already won 1 hard game and lost narrowly in the 5th to my coach Dave Godbold (O50s R32 at world vets this year).

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

If he didn't have a backhand, you just gave him balls to his FH to give him a nice victory? You're a nice lad, dunc, too nice... Seriously: did he pivot around his BH? If he did, you can force him to do that and play in the open space. If he didn't, just play to his BH. Plus train different kind of service returns, both in depth as in height.

Serve short topspin.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Against short serve to BH I can do (better or worse) the BH bump/roll and opponent should have hard time to step around to launch FH. And if he is too eager to step around, you can bumb the ball to his wide FH.

Another variation is touch drop to the FH pocket, alternating with fast and long one to the BH corner.

It's also equipment dependent - it is harder to that with P1r 1.5, as it's not suited for bumbing or for the touch drop. It's kind of the the downside of P1r 1.5.

On the other hand, very top pip players don't use bumbs or drops much - they can return fast and spinny underspin against short serves also and they can return the attack and are able to move fast away from the table after terutning short serve (which I usually can't do).

Well, besides placement it's quite logical what you need to do on a serve: if it's short, you have to keep it short too. Make sure the opponent can only attack weakly on the short. That way you get a deeper ball you can chop and the chopping rally starts. If it's long, chop away.

He's young, quick, powerful and tall with good reach. He pivoted around his backhand 9 times out of 10 and on the other occasion he gave me a "dig" push into my backhand.

I was nowhere near quick/good enough to control my chops to him. I'm not exaggerating when I say I physically missed the table when attempting to chop 75% of his loops. The ones I did get on were too high and he just lashed them straight past me. I've genuinely never had this problem in any of the matches I've played and I've played against players ranked in the top 50 in England. I know what the solution is to returning these - practice against them - but that isn't an option because, as I say, nobody I know plays with this much power and speed.

How do you train service returns? I find this very difficult. I never return my regular practice partners' serves poorly because I'm used to them. My most regular practice partner often says (wrongly) that he thinks my service receive is one of the best parts of my game because of this. This lad's serves though I'd never encountered before (he's changed them significantly since I last played him) and I've never really seen similar serves when playing against other players either. I was nonplussed.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

How do you serve short topspin? My backspin serves are super short but if I put any spin on my topspin serves at all they always kick long enough to loop. I tried this theory and, unsurprisingly, he looped it straight past me.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

This is probably the strategy I tried most often... but I struggled. It's not a shot I use very often so I wasn't overly consistent with it. I tried both with the pimples and with twiddled returns.


This is the shot I probably most urgently need to get better at. I couldn't really do it. It was never long enough and it was never particularly fast or threatening. I'll get on the robot and work on this.


Yeah... I can't do this I consider myself quite quick but I've never needed to move as quick as I would've had to against this opponent. I think I need to speed that up a bit, but also need to work heavily on returning the ball in such a way that he's unable to play a winning loop every time.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)