OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi Dunc

- About choosing between SP and LP: you don't have to make a decision for the rest of your life now, so keep both setups, try them extensively against all types of players (but don't change too often) and time will tell what suits you best. What you can also do when you're playing a friendly match: first two sets with SP, next two sets with LP and evaluate with your opponent what were the strengths and weaknesses of both.

- About playing against pimples with pimples. This is always difficult for both players. It's a search. Experience will be deciding here, so chin up and keep up the learning to play as a modern defender

- And another one: try not to rely solely on the pips and make your FH attack your strongest weapon

_________________
Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

Thanks Pipsy, you're very right. I'm going to my coaching session with the Curl P1-R on my JSH today and I'll see what advice the coach offers. One of the benefits of having all of my pimples on gluesheets, that's for sure!

One thing you mentioned about "just using the pips" though - my forehand is, at the moment, basically my only weapon. Well, that, and my serves. However, with the SPs, players are realising that they can just pin me into my backhand corner by pushing to my SPs low and long. I either enter a push rally (which I find immensely boring and frustrating) or I come around and attack with my forehand. At this level of play that shot is just getting repeatedly punished with a hard block into my wide forehand and I can't get round in time to make a powerful shot from it, or often to even be there at all.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Very recognizable story . This can just as well occur with LPs (especially LP against LP). You can try four things I guess:
1) Keep pushing but try to manipulate the amount of spin (easy with high friction LPs like Curl, also possible with SPs?), the opponent might send the ball long.
2) Alternate with a FH push or a twiddled inverted push (or even a twiddled inverted BH looping attack but that's quite difficult)
3) Come around and attack the way you describe, but make sure the attack is lethal or place in such a way that the opponent can't block as easily to you forehandside
4) Try to attack a pushed underspin ball with your pips. I guess this is difficult with SPs, but it's very feasible with LPs (preferably with some sponge and enough friction)

_________________
Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

Northumberland local league closed tournament - March 17th, 2013
All the talk of tournaments elsewhere on the forum has reminded me that I haven't yet posted on here about my first (and only, to date) attempt at a tournament.

After every winter season my local league hosts a closed tournament, open to anyone that is registered for the league. This season's came around exactly six months after I'd started playing, and I entered myself for doubles (although I had to be talked into it), handicap singles and band 4 singles.

I didn't really give the tournament much thought until the day before, and in truth, I was really quite nervous! I tried to eat well the day before and tried to sleep at 2300 which is 2 to 3 hours earlier than I usually do. Unfortunately it wasn't particularly successful, but at least I was in bed and resting rather than up using a computer or whatnot.

Doubles
So, on the Sunday of the tournament, I turned up at 0900 and awaited the announcement of the doubles pairings. The way this tournament works is that players are split into two rating groups, simply higher and lower, and each partnership is randomly picked from one higher and one lower graded player. This could potentially make for some quite unfair partnerships but in the end most of the teams I saw were quite random and quite fair. My partner was to be Andrew Dryden, whose grade was around 240. He's a Premiership quality player, plays in both the Northumberland and Sunderland leagues, and plays Senior British League in Division 3, I believe. He's a lovely gentleman, and we were given a bye for the first round. My first game of the day thus came at around 1000 against the eventual runner-ups with a combined grade of 400 to our 315. I didn't play too badly but they eventually fathomed that I was struggling to receive long serves, which is strange, because they're exactly the kind of serve I usually love to attack. Sadly I couldn't read the spin and ended up hitting quite a few off the table. Frustrating! We lost 3-2.

Band 4 Singles
There wasn't too many players in the Band 4 singles. I think there was only 12 or 15 of us, off the top of my head. Anyone with a grade below 90 was put in Band 4 and I found myself with a mix of players from Division 4 and Division 3 of the winter league. The highest graded player was Adrian Barnes, a dedicated Jpen inv/OX LP twiddler and unfortunately for me he was in my group. I know Adrian well but up until this point, with him playing in Division 3 and me playing in Division 4, I'd never played against him. He's the kind of guy that takes umpiring seriously and also makes notes about opponents which he types up on a very, very detailed Excel spreadsheet. He's known as "Batman" at our club and loves cheap Chinese rubbers or all sorts. I think that day he was using LKT Bomb with 802 as his OX but I have no idea what his forehand rubber was.

Adrian's form is inconsistent. Well, that isn't true, sometimes it's consistently bad. His playstyle involves a huge amount of pushing, often exclusively with the LPs, looking for a pop-up to absolutely lace past his opponent. When he's on form, he tends to land those smashes. When he isn't, he can go full games without landing a single one and often chooses bizarre balls to attack. Regardless, he's been playing for well in excess of 10 years and he understands the pimples well, so I had a challenge on my hands. Adrian watched my first game against Leigh. I don't particularly like Leigh, partially because she refuses to believe that I haven't played table tennis before and partially because when I was beating her in our Division 4 winter season game she called me a "twat" for doing high-toss serves and sought to humiliate me in front of her teammates. Is there any need? I lost more points with the high toss than I do with my normal serve so I'm really not sure what her problem was. Anyway, after beating Leigh, it was my turn to play against Adrian. He'd clearly made some half-decent notes and spent the entire game trying to push into my backhand and smash to my forehand. I went 2 games down but in the third I realised that my slow, spinny loops were causing problems for him - he would often try to smash the loops, only to find them fly literally miles off the end of the table. I started coming around on to my backhand to play these loops, which enticed Adrian into pushing instead to my forehand, which was exactly what I wanted. I won three games on the bounce and progressed from my group.

From this point on I played a mix of players, mostly Division 3, but my slow loops were causing all of them a lot of problems. I encountered only one Division 4 player other than myself that tried to attack long serves and at that level every serve I received was long, so I was having a good day. I progressed to the final and played against Division 3 player Sam Nair, whose style is that of a counter-hitting, active blocking type with double inverted rubbers.



Sam had umpired my previous four games, so he knew exactly how I played. What I don't think he accounted for was the amount of spin that my Innershield and Omega IV Elite combination could produce on my near-vertical loops. I've changed this technique now as you may see in some of my coaching videos above, but back then some of my lower-division opponents had major difficulty trying to return those attacks. The other thing I noticed quite quickly was that Sam couldn't play against any kind of backspin - heavy pushes and heavy serves thus became the order of the day and all in all I found myself taking my foot off the gas a little in an attempt to save energy for the Handicap tournament, which was the prize I really had my eye on. I won the Band 4 singles final 3-0 and in all of the games I played the only sets I dropped were against Adrian in the group stage.

Handicap Singles
Every winter season we run a Handicap Cup as an aside to the league itself. It's just for fun and pride, and my team didn't manage to progress past the first round, but as I've written about in earlier posts, I won my three games against recently-promoted Division 2 players and I loved every minute of it. The Handicap Singles in the closed tournament therefore was exactly what I looked forward to. Nearly every player at the tournament (80 or so?) was signed up for the Handicap Singles so I had a lot of games to play.

Each person's grade is based on their performances. Everyone originally started at a grade of 50 and our highest-graded player is Andrew Wilkinson with a grade of 330. The lowest Premiership player is around 220. My grade at that time, thanks to not playing for too long and having some poor results early on, was only 75. I would estimate my current grade at around 130.

My first opponent had a grade of around 140 and thus had to give me 9 points in a "best of 3, games to 21" format. Lyndsey is an all-out, ultra-aggressive flat-hitting double-inverted player that loves to get into quick rallies and loves to play against the "average" topspin of such a counter-hitting rally. What she doesn't enjoy is playing against any kind of backspin or high topspin. I beat her quite quickly 21-3 and 21-8.

My quarter final opponent was Paul who I may have mentioned here in earlier posts. Paul's a nice guy, but gets quite upset if he can't win. I had to give him 2 points but beat him quite comfortably 21-8 or thereabouts in the first game. The second game I made the fatal mistake of taking my foot completely off the pedal at 18-10 and Paul managed to win numerous points in a row to take the game 22-20. I took the final game much more seriously and managed to win 21-11 but I have to admit to an awful net during a 10 or 12 shot rally where the ball came up high and I absolutely laced it, only for it to clip the net and bounce three times whilst Paul was a good few metres away from the table. I think it affected him psychologically and he couldn't come back. He was nice to text me later and tell me that he thought my third ball attack was "phenomenal", so I apologised for the net and let him know that he gave me one of, if not the toughest games of the day.

I proceeded to the final and found myself up against 16 year old Premiership player Ellis Cooper. Ellis had around a 60% ratio in the Premiership that season with a grade of 239 - I knew I'd be in for a challenge. When he realised he had to give me 14 points however, I think he let it get to him, and he didn't get started.



I took the first game, but Ellis came back really well for the second game, until I focused all of my efforts and played reasonably well to win the final game and take the Handicap Singles trophy.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Great advice indeed. Here's what I tried, in order:

1) Come around to attack. Worked well against lower level players, but from high-end Division 3 and upwards, players simply started power-blocking into my wide forehand. One thing I do need to work on here is to come around more and play into my opponent's backhand rather than there forehand. Unfortunately, with my silly-long legs and arms, the perfect place for me to get power on my loops requires me to be a significant distance out to the side of the table! When I played against the aforementioned LP players on Tuesday evening, there physically wasn't enough room for me to do that.
2) I tried to manipulate the spin with the SPs, as it's quite easy to do so - as Leatherback always says, you get what you put in. Sometimes I'd push heavily, other times I'd punch through the ball to try and get a knuckle effect. Some players popped these up, but again the better players seemed to be more than aware of it and a couple learnt to attack those shots even when deep into their backhand. Again, something to practice here is the backhand smash with SPs when the ball does pop up - I've lost a few points from rushing my smash here.

As far as I'm aware you can't attack underspin balls with SPs, at least not in the way you can with LPs. I would end up having to imitate a weak inverted loop.

One thing I'll definitely be working on, SPs or LPs, is the twiddled inverted loop. I've practised my backhand "Ma Long" flick and standard backhand inverted loop all along (though not as often as chopping/forehand looping) to make sure I can do it for this exact reason. My coach agreed to incorporate that for me next week, too. Only problem I have with it at the moment is that, having recently changed my grip, I find that when I twiddle, I twiddle to my old grip. Must sit in the house and practice twiddling!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Well, I watched the videos of the tournament you won. Congratz!

But I don't know if you're fit to be a (modern) defender. Watching those videos made me realize you're not a defender at all. An allrounder player, yes, with an emphasis on spin, yes, but a defender: no. You stick too close to the table to be that and you have a too offensive mentality to be that. You're also not feeling good if you're away from the table (from the videos it seems you're clueless when you're back there, giving away free points if they even land on the other side of the table).

I know those games were played in the beginning of your transitioning period towards being a (modern) defender, so they can be inappropiate to make any judgment at all. But I remember, when I started playing, I usually went away from the table chopping with my backhand and that was a good hint of what style I'm playing right now.

Maybe some things can clarify things:

1) Were you already playing SP/LP in the tournament?
2) A recent random training knock on youtube can clarify if you're becoming a modern defender.

Finally, I don't mean to be harsch and I don't mean to offend you with my comment. It's just what my experience tells me (and that can be wrong).

No, you're entirely right Lorre. I can't even watch those videos now, I look completely clueless Not to say I'm even close to being good now, but I've improved - and changed.

Problem was, when I first started learning to play, nobody appeared to want to attack. Everyone was passive and as I'd already been developing my forehand it became natural for me to take the initiative and attack.

Better players wouldn't play against me and players at my level either didn't attack or flat-hit.

As a result, I developed serves and third-ball attacks. Beyond that, especially in that tournament, I had no actual game play strategies.

I'll never be the type of defender to chop eighty loops in a row, I'd like to think I'll be the kind of defender that uses chops to bring a powerful forehand into the game. A bit like Joo, I'd hope. I could quite happily and naturally play as a two-winged looper but I absolutely love chopping and I love playing away from the table. The power my forehand has (now) suits that style of play too I think.

I don't think it's a bad thing that I've developed a reasonable forehand, but I'm certainly concentrating more on my chopping now. The coach I've been to twice now, and will be seeing every week, is giving me primarily chopping and defensive play training.

Now my strategy is much more defensive - even my stance is naturally about three feet further away than it was. And, to coincide, the better players are really starting to give me time now. Most nights I'm fortunate enough to spend at least an hour playing against Division 1 or Premiership standard players.

I was playing SPs in that tournament but as you entirely correctly point out, I certainly wasn't using them for any kind of defensive purposes!

I have a 90 minute video from my session yesterday but I'll crop the games out of it and show you how I'm trying to play now. I'm no longer an 'at the table' player and my forehand is much more speed oriented. Posting those videos was just a history thing, really. Already I'd hope you'll be able to see a notable difference between then and now. Maybe in a year when I've developed a comfortable style I'll actually be able to watch those tournament videos back and giggle at myself!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Ok, I see. I'm curious how you developed.

I'd like to point out three more things:

1) You'll need to be able to chop eight loops in a row. Not that it will occur a lot in game play, but consistent defense is the foundation of a modern defensive game.

2) Having a good attack is necessary, if only as a treat to the opponent.

3) Having a brush loop with a lot of spin will give you free points in the lower stages of the game and will be blocked in the higher stages of the game. The latter is ideal to prepare a more leathal attack.

Besides, as a positive note, for being a lad playing less than a year you've improved a lot, even in those vids of the tournament. I know a lot of guys who play since several years and aren't even at the level you're at.

Good to hear you're training against the better players now.

Thanks Lorre. I didn't say eight loops, I said eighty! You're completely right about the consistency, I was just trying to get the point across that I'd never be an all-out defensive player. I want to defend to win, and defend to attack if necessary. I have a reasonable idea for most of the shots (forehand chop excluded), and my shot selection is OK, but the lack of consistency is what loses me the most points in my game at the moment. I'm moving to my new house (eventually...) on Friday and will be getting a table tennis table and robot soon thereafter so fingers crossed I'll be able to improve my consistency in that way on top of the 12 - 16 hours I'm trying to play each week.

Sadly my camera's battery died and the games I wanted to show you were at the end of my session, so I haven't actually got them recorded. I do have the following video from the beginning of the session where I was practising a "chopping only" game. You can clearly see that my forehand chop is unbelievably poor, but my backhand chop is starting to improve and I'm at least trying to play in the mindset of a defensive player. Still, I can't really watch it (especially the first game) because it's pretty bloody awful



Please excuse the dodgy titles, I'm trying out my new video editing software

Tonight I played against one of the best loopers in my division (a teammate, and one of the aforementioned cadets). Once my backhand got warmed up I was getting some real consistency against Arran's varying speed loops, loopdrives and outright smashes. He punished my sloppy chops very effectively. One thing is certain though, I have to make sure I don't entirely forget about my forehand when I practice chopping as when I played against one of my Premier standard friends later on, I missed not one but every offensive stroke I played. DOH!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Eighty??? I can't cope with that and I doubt even Joo can.

I've seen the vid you posted. You've made a nice progress. I still might be wrong in my assessment, but I'm still have to see a training match to see what you're doing in a match situation (your spontaneous moves and strokes). You have a major advantage, though: you're only a beginner and so your moves and strokes haven't settled yet. So you might go either way (attacking or defending), as long as it feels good for you.

Some more points about what I've seen. First of all BTW, you have a lovely coach. His feedback is topnotch, although I would be more strict. For example: at 6:02 you hit a FH chop and it's high and short. He might be glad the ball is loaded (which it is), but I would find the ball too high and too short. Off course, he might correct that in a later stage of your development. I'm saying this from experience because I'm training someone now: he's 50, passionate about the game and full of wrong strokes. I had to unlearn those wrong strokes, learn him decent one and I especially need(ed) to correct his timing. He hit the ball way to early. Now his timing on his forehand is perfect, although his backhand still needs some work. I thought he would be a kind of blocker, but once he learned to loop, he loved it and I trained him that way (technically, because tactically I'm just not fit to guide him behind a certain point). He's never going to beat some powerlooping youngsters (he might do that, because his blocking capacities are still intact), but he does what he likes to do and that's what counts. Everybody at the club is amazed on how much progress he made.

Your BH chops... Are they made with SP? I think they are. The problems with those chops is that they aren't loaded at all and you seem to chop them the way you would using a LP. I'm not SP chopper expert and too be honest: I don't know how I would impart spin with them. I'd advise you to contact SP experts like leatherback on this forum (or read his blog) to know how to load the ball with SP.

Your FH chop is shaky, to say the least. The good thing is you use a lot of wrist. But your timing is way too early. You need to take it later - at knee height. Besides that your whole body needs to work to form the so called defensive arc. Hard to explain what it means, but watch Joo's FH chops from this game:



When you were doing the latter exercise I've seen you needed to do BH chop, FH chop and FH attack. I don't know if you or your coach have seen it, but you've done the latter component of your training in two ways. Again it's timing: you looped the ball at his heighest point and when he was already dropping. When you loop the ball at his heighest point, you can loop it more foreward, giving it more speed. When you're looping it when it's dropping, you need to loop more upwards like your coach was showing you. If you loop like your coach says at the ball's heighest point, it will go out.

Aye, that's why I was hoping I'd be able to show you the game the coach and I played later on. It was a standard game (not just chopping) and I felt like I combined defensive and offensive strategies nicely, based around chopping. My camera will have full battery for my session this Wednesday so I'll post again after that.

As I mentioned in my last post, an offensive game certainly comes more naturally to me. However, again, you're totally right - my strokes aren't fully developed yet and as such I'm choosing to play in a defensive style. I know my mindset isn't right for that yet but already the shift from now and three months ago is significant. In another three months I'll hopefully be veering towards the exact mindset I want.


Couldn't agree more. He's fantastic for me. The other coach confounded me and praised me "inappropriately", i.e. praised me at times when I was quite blatantly not getting it and said things like "I like what you're doing, but..." where Dave just generally has better banter. I think you're right about correcting length/height later on - one step at a time; my forehand chop is roughly on par with that of a three year old's


No my friend, I was using my JSH blade with Curl P1-R on in that session (and that's what I was using last night, too). The coach wasn't really going for any great speed or spin, which may account for some of the lack of spin. In games like that I actually feel like I can impart significantly more spin with the SPs, but they're also significantly harder to play with against greater levels of topspin. When I was playing against Arran last night for instance I suspect I would've put a quarter of the chops on compared to what I achieved with my LPs.


Shaky isn't the word, but I appreciate you holding back I'm getting some conflicting advice about the forehand chop. I've always seen Joo chop very vertically, and he always takes the ball low, but I'm presuming that's because his opponents put so much topspin on the ball. My coach on the other hand is telling me to take the ball close to the table, which means I can't go further back and wait until the ball drops - plus, there's not a lot of topspin on his multiball or loops (at the moment, because he's taking it easy with me), so I don't think letting it drop is an option. I've been watching this video from PingSkills which makes sense to me - come under and forward with the ball on slower/less spinny shots and go straight down on heavier shots. Do you agree?




Absolutely. As you've seen from my tournament videos, my loop was 100% brush and very vertical. It has taken quite some time for me to try and change that, and I'm starting to come more forward, but I still need to work on making more of a "driving" contact on higher shots. I did some work on that last week with my "temporary coach" Andrew, and his suggestion was exactly the same as yours, and I started to get it toward the end.

Thoroughly appreciate your feedback. I have many things to work on, but these I think should be my main foci for the near future (in no order):

• Consistency of backhand chop timing and technique, including wider stance and bending knees
• Learn to forehand chop (how else can I put it )
• Consistency of pushing, which is something I haven't shown you in video but it's losing me whole games against better opponents
• Improved footwork, especially side to side. It's getting better, but I need to be much lighter on my feet generally
• Consistency of forehand, i.e. being able to loop and loopdrive repeatedly against blocks and topspin returns

So, nothing major really... There are other things I'd like to work on too, such as twiddling; the occasional inverted loop/flick serve receive; vs. backspin attacks with the LPs and so on... but they're really not important at the moment. Need to get the foundations in. I've got a long way to go, I'm just chuffed I've got a coach who can help me. I was floundering for a while!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

They are? I really thought they were made by a SP. Now, I assume you're letting the ball float (i.e. no spin ball) then. Even with the spin your coach gave you, you should be able to make a shot he nets.

Now, I was watching your vid again and after a minute or two it hit me you're using a 1,5mm sponge underneath your P1-R. That explains why they appear like SP balls. You really don't need that thickness at your level. It will only hurt your game. Try to use a 0,5mm or 1,0mm sponge for more backspin in the ball at your level of playing. You'll also see, the technique you're learning on your BH ATM, is more appropiate for these kind of thicknesses. A 1,5mm sponge will behave more like a SP and must be used more like a SP.



I don't agree with your coach here. How would it be possible to defend if you need to be far away from the table (to chop BH) and close to the table (to chop FH) at the same time if you don't know where the ball will come?
The Pingskill video is correct, but as a defender you need to take it lower than the guy in the video.



Like many lads of your age who don't get coaching. I'm one myself and need to work things out without any help at all. It's a hard learning school, but it's so much fun that I can feel the ball and have a lot of knowledge about TT. Those are two things a lot of players don't have. I've talked to my training partner not long ago and when i said I could feel the ball and even knew where I touched it on my paddle, he went . He didn't have that feeling at all. The guy I'm giving training also doesn't have that feeling. It's strange for me not to know where you've hit the ball and what you did wrong if the ball nets or goes long.

A couple more tips:

1) to push consistently with the FH: do it like a chop. Hit the back/under of the ball. For your BH: try to push it more sideways/under (to receive a short push - you can place the ball where you want using this) or completely go baehind and underneath it to receive a long push. You can also just touch it, but beware of the resulting topspin.

2) To be lighter on your feet: jog and run. I try to run against my limit (the state you're in when you're close to feeling your spleen telling you to slow down) for 12min one week and try to jog for 45min-1h the other week. The first exercise gives you explosivity in your legs, the other exercise gives your stamina. If you only do the first exercise, you'll probably end up being explosive, but being exhausted after an hour. If you only do the second one, you'll be able to play for many hours, but your legs will feel lazy.

More good advice, sir.

With regards to the sponge on my Curl P1-R... I was under the impression that, on a LP rubber, more sponge would help me to generate more spin (where there's an absence of spin on the incoming shot)? If that isn't the case, will I get more spin on OX chops, even against lower-spin incoming shots?

I do actually need to buy another sheet of this rubber because the topsheet is lifting from the sponge in a fairly major way where my finger lies and above it. If you think it's beneficial I'll go for the 0.5mm on the new sheet. I could even opt for the Curl P4, isn't that supposed to be the easiest rubber to chop with? What makes it easier than the P1-R? I already have an OX bat but I haven't used it seriously (don't like the blade); my apprentice uses it to block against me occasionally.

Sorry, I may have confused you about my coach's advice. He's suggesting that I stay the same distance away from the table to play forehand and backhand chops, but from what you're saying, I should be further back for forehand chops so that I can take the ball lower. Is that to help keep the forehand chop low, too? EDIT: Yes, I wrote "close to the table" and I meant "closer to the table". My bad!

My feeling for the ball is a great deal better than it was three months ago, but I do notice that said feeling is significantly lessened with SPs and LPs. Oddly though, I get more feeling with my P1-R than I do with my 802 SPs. I also know that my "feeling" for spin is much improved, but I still struggle with sidespin in particular.

Unfortunately I can't jog far, and certainly can't run fast. See one of my early posts about my knee injury. I think the best I can manage is cycling, and that's yet another scheme I have planned for when I move house - I've already sourced a cycling machine to go in the same room as my table tennis table.

One thing I'm trying at the moment, in games, is to take a low stance and then as soon as the opponent starts to serve, jog my feet a little. It seems to help me keep mobile. To be honest, if I'm 100% focused, I DO move my feet. Tiredness is a killer in that regard, so I definitely need to work on my stamina.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I've been reading your blog lately but haven't had the time to comment (Lorre is BTW saying most things I would have said). Interesting to follow your progress. I can see a lot of my own TT carreer in yours, but you are moving forward faster .
About your BH chopping.... I think you would benefit from learning to chop with a less grippy LP and with a thinner sponge. I always recommend Dawei 388D for learning to chop as it is extreamly forgiving (and gets lots of back spin to your opponent). But it is also a little fast, especially on a Joo-blade. But you should try something less grippy. If you chop with a little thinner contact or slow motion at ball contact you need something with less grip so that the ball won't brake its rotation at contact with the rubber. With an inverted you need to chop with the same speed as the ball rotates to not loose any rotation. If you chop slower you will lower the balls rotation. But with a less grippy lp this is not a problem.
Also, with a less grippy lp you don't need to be as precise with bat angle.
There are lots of cheap lp's with less grip to try. Dawei 388D is one that I like, but I think Neptune might be good, or perhaps 755? Meteor def is very slow and easy to do anything with and it kind of reminds of P1-r but less grippy. I am sure there are others if you want to go that way. Just a tip...
Keep up the good work!

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Thanks DA

I think I understand what you're saying, but I think that I'd like to carry on using the less-forgiving P1-R and just improve my technique.

Over the next couple of weeks I'll be working on my positioning and timing and once I feel more comfortable with that I'll definitely be working on brushing the ball quicker on my chop by speeding up my arm movement.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)