OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Well, I also had the impression that more sponge would generate more spin, but Joo said in an interview that the most backspin comes of a 1.0mm sponge. I don't think it's true, to be honest, although the backspin of a 1.0mm sponge is more disturbing. It's hard to explain, but that's what I experienced with my beloved DTecs in 1.2mm and 1.6mm sponge thickness.

It's true a 1.5mm sponge will generate more spin when the incoming spin is absent. But you'll experience those balls close to the table (spinless pushes). The amount of backspin generated of the 1,5mm P1-R will not withhold a good attacker to start his attacking sequence again. I think Joo uses such thick a sponge to be able to better place the ball where he likes to (he's less dependant of the incoming spin).

IMO a thick sponge will also generate more spin in general, but at a loss of control. The LP will behave more and more like a SP when you add sponge, so you'll also be less dependant of the incoming spin.

Now here's the deal: let us say 10 rotations of topspin will get a 0,5mm sponge start to reverse and you'll become dependent of the incoming spin. 20 rotations a 1,0mm sponge and 30 rotations a 1,5mm sponge. But all your match opponents at your level only hit 20 rotations. So a 0,5mm sponge will start to reverse, a 1,0mm one also, but the 1,5 sponge will only hold the ball and return a spinless shot if you only hold your bat against it. So the amount of spin generated needs to come from you. Simply put: an OX will reverse sooner, but will also of all sponge thicknesses generate the lowest spin against the heaviest topspin. A 1,5 sponge will reverse later, but will generate the heaviest spin on the heaviest topspin. Now, if the amount of spin on those shots needs to be generated by you, you need the best technique to cover that area of rotations. Don't forget: on a lot of balls you'll receive when defending you'll only be able to put your bat against or just use a quick wrist motion, so you need to have the best technique on slow balls (I can do that already), but also against those rocket balls (I can do that with my 1,2 mm sponge, but not with my 1,6 sponge). I don't think your technique is there yet.

Or still put in other words: every level has a certain sponge thickness it matches. If you go too thick, you'll lose control and be harmless when it comes to generating backspin. When you go too small, you'll have a lot of control, but you'll generate less backspin than what's possible at your level.

That's what I experienced in my seven years of using LP. Please don't hold it against me if it turns out to be only half true.

I think the P4 is easier to chop with because of the pace absorbing sponge, but it's also less effective to chop with: it generates less backspin than the P1-R. I won't go for it. I also won't go for an OX, because chopping with those will result in a more passive chop and it's harder to direct the ball to where you want it. it's more disturbing against lower level players, though.

No, the same distance for both FH and BH chopping.

I don't think cycling works. I need to ride my bicycle 10km to my club, 10km back, twice a week. I also ride my bicycle to my other club, 6km away, 6km back. I ride on average 52km a week. I'm still slowing down, though, if I'm not running. The only thing I noticed that works, is to ride a climb. But I assume also more pressure is put on your knee then. Maybe the best thing you can do is swimming. That doesn't put pressure on you knee.

That's a great explanation Lorre, many thanks.

At the level I'm playing at I think 0.5mm would therefore suffice. It'll be a while before I'm consistently playing against opponents (in league games) who can loop the ball with a lot of topspin. Even if my chop technique gets good enough, my short game won't be there until I can play more and more opponents.

Will the 0.5 sponge be more sensitive to spin on serves?

What would you recommend Lorre, having seen the chopping technique I'm learning? Learn with the 0.5 or the 1mm?

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

No, in contrary: it will be less sensitive to spin on serves.

Well, you're a beginning player, so I would go for a 0,5mm. I also think, at the level you're playing (seeing from the tournament vid's you've showed), it will greatly benefit you.

Now the colour: unless you're using a Chinese rubber as FH, it's better to use black pips (just look at the Korean choppers): a little more manipulation options and a tad slower and softer. A little more spin sensitive, though.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Alright, great. I've ordered 0.5mm in black.

I've been using H3N on my forehand but it feels like a totally different rubber to the other one I have on my P-G7, it's not tacky at all (despite using SpinMax on it every single day before use) and has much less spin. Really frustrating 'cos I love my other H3N.

Anyway, gives me an excuse to try yet another forehand rubber

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Maybe you've got a fake or a too long shelved one? Anyway, DHS is known to be quite inconsistent in their badges. Just look at some thread at several TT fora. I also wanted to try the H3N, but due to his inconsistency I'm not eager to settle for it.

Maybe you could try Thor or Tau. Or Spinart.

Palio Thor's plays very similar to H3Neo. But it is faster on high impact and is easier over the table because the top sheet is softer. Highly recommended!

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
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I've warred between Thors, Razka 7, Adidas P7, Skyline TG3 and T80. I've opted for the P7 as its reviews seem positive and I managed to get one in red really pretty cheap. Cheaper than the Curl P1-R oddly!

I have no idea what's wrong with the H3. I don't think it's a fake but it's certainly crap My other sheet on the other hand is spinny as hell and SpinMax restores good tackiness every time I use it. Shame it's cut for a far smaller bat.

While I'm waiting for my new setup to arrive should I practice with my Curl P1-R or my OX setup?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Just go for your P1-R.

OK, here's a few games from this week's session, plus a snippet of our league's best LP chopper.

I couldn't get the P7 in the end, panicked, and opted for Tenergy 80. Glad I did, it's like a quicker, higher-throw Calibra LT in terms of how it feels for looping. Really enjoyable and really fast. I gave a few of the guys a go with it and they all really liked the rubber on my JSH.



Stupidly (and I'm really quite annoyed about this!) all of the chopping practice that I recorded was of no use - the coach was right in-between where I'd put the camera and where I was chopping. Why did I put it on that side?! Engage your brain dunc! It's a shame too because I was chopping 8 or 9 in a row consistently and even my "in -> out" and short pushing started to really improve.

Here are some of my spontaneous thoughts about those games:

• The floor was real slippy in those trainers New TT shoes coming today or tomorrow though
• When I move back from the table, I'm losing a lot of points because my footwork is so poor
• I'm generally unstable for a lot of shots and it's costing me point after point
• I need to work on a better long backspin serve, rather than my heavy mid-length effort
• If I'm attacking, I need to continue attacking (at this stage) rather than trying to attack a few then chop any difficult returns
• My short game needs so much work

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Hi Dunc.

Here are a couple of succinct points after watching just a little of your video with Mr G.

Most importantly....... I think the biggest issue you have at present is anticipation and reaction. You actually have some nice strokes when in position but have a poor sense of where the ball might go and give too many angles before the point speeds up. I think this issue is heightened by your willingness to leave the table andtherefore expose angles. Even as a modern defender don't leave the table until attacked strongly, then be prepared to react. Of course anticipation will come with practice and experience....

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

And what I should have added is about experience....... Knowing from what you have played what is likely to come back.......

Don't be disheartened, you are doing well! There are simply no shortcuts !

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Thanks pal. Don't worry about me being disheartened. I've already been 11-0'd this season and all it did was make me force Dave to meet me for an impromptu coaching session so I could improve Takes a lot to upset me!

You're bang on about my anticipation. It's almost as if I need to slow down. I hurry everything - moving away from the table, moving to my right to cover what I perceive to be an opening on my forehand side and so on - and every time I do that there's one of two outcomes. I either blatantly expose another weakness (I.e. Dave changes his forehand angle to go down the line to my backhand) or I don't have any type of stable base and end up playing a rushed half-shot with all the wrong angles!

I'll upload some of my forehand footage in the near future because it typifies my 'rushed' syndrome. On the shots where I'm in position, I get a lot of power and a lot of spin. When I'm not, on the other hand, I lose probably 50% effectiveness and miss loads too.

Moving away from the table is basically a comfort thing. I feel like my forehand is more effective when I'm at mid distance and it's a stroke I love playing. Same with the backhand chop, actually. But in this instance you're spot on - I'm only moving away from the table because I'm worried Dave will lace a topspin past me. But in all of the games I think he only does that once, and he catches me out with short pushes while I'm backing away from the table quite a few times.

Tomorrow I'm moving house which is good and bad news. Good because I'll be getting my table tennis table soon and bad because I won't have Internet for a month. I'll do my best to take the footage to work on a memory stick to upload though because this kind of feedback is really useful to me.

So thanks Lorre, Pipsy, DA and SD. Really good stuff

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

No big comments - thumbs up!

I don't entirely agree with so_devo, though. It's allright not to backup from the table when playing an alrounder or defender or when you want to attack yourself, but when facing a good looper it's perfectly normal. I'd try to do a short return (when they're serving), though, before giving them a long one that starts the looping-chopping rally.

Agree with the anticipation-reaction part, although that often comes with experience.

Serves need to be spinnier and shorter, so they need to push. A lot of BH errors: time to change to a 0,5 P1-R.

What thickness are you ising for the T80?

That is my 0.5 Lorre! It was the first time I'd ever used it though so just need some time to adapt.

Won three games tonight despite being so unbelievably tired from moving house today. Played a lot slower because of my tiredness and strangely my consistency improved quite a lot. Fewer mistakes meant winning more points. Surprise that, isn't it?!

It's 1.9mm T80 as per sig.

May I ask why you'd recommend a short push? I thought a long push would be more effective for trying to force a loop -> chop rally?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

It was really the 0,5? I saw you were generating more backspin, but you still made too many unforced errors. You'll still transitioning, though.

Yes, that's a surprise.

Well, I'd recommend first a short push, before a second long one to load up the spin for the second one.