OOAK Table Tennis Forum

The problem (if that's the right word) Dunc with drilling pushes with the robot, especially with LP, is that you groove your push to the spin the robot is set for. And of course you can change the robot spins and even placement, but here is the crux of it. The spin and placement you get from a human, and not just one but many, differs with every shot. I'm not saying don't drill with the robot (and never would), but you just have to recognise the difference and kind of mentally register that so that you can meld it into your responses to real players. Recognising the spin and the position that the ball is coming to you before you push will determine the fine (and even coarse) adjustments you make in the push. Your pushes in the vid seem to glide under the ball (like small chopping), but you can push directly into and through the ball and also go over the ball with the push, depending on spin and position. The differing shots will have vastly differing results, especially in the speed and height of the returned ball. Of course the direction you are aiming to send the ball will also impact heavily on the resulting shot. A chop-like push to the FH side has a great tendency to "fly" from the bat and go long. Great touch is needed, or you need to come over the ball more. And of course once again, the spin of the incoming ball, and its placement all impact on this. The variables are great, so you need to develop instinctive responses. If you can set the robot to send to varying places, with varying spins and experiment with differing blade angles and strokes you'll develop your instincts better. But I strongly recommend you aim to develop using the pips in other actions than just the chop-like shots you use now (basing this on what I see in the vids - my apologies if I've missed you doing this more than I think). And its not that there's anything wrong with the chop-like strokes (you have that down pat). Its just that you make such variation to the ball with varied strokes that it can catch out or at least confuse your opponent and keep them on their toes.

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Yeah, a bit of that - but also because of Dave's game. He's not as mobile these days (two bad knees) which makes playing his forehand to my backhand a bit trickier, and I think he finds it easier/less tiring to play against topspin than heavy backspin.

He's a phenomenal player though. His touch.. brilliant.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

You're absolutely right Reb.

I've got a new Amicus so I can set 6 different placements and spins, and put it on total random - which is what I'm doing. That's good for practising the technique (I need a bit of that at the moment), but it's not realistic.

What you're describing with the forehand push is exactly what I'm struggling with. Against heavy backspin I seem to manage to cushion the ball pretty well... but against other spins I'm hugely erratic.

One thing that definitely does help though is making sure I've got enough space to actually play the stroke. Often I'm taking the ball far too close to my body. That leads to awful technique in the best case and glaring errors the rest of the time.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Some videos from Friday's practice session:

Drills


Game

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Sooo.. Exciting times ahead!

I was recently asked to join a British League team, our national league. I'm playing Division 4 Midlands for the Cliffedale Chandlers.

British League consists of 4 weekends per season at a mutual venue. I've missed the first half of the season (they had a player drop out) and this is how the table looks:

https://tabletennis365.com/britishleagu ... 4_Midlands

The format for Sunday is:

• We'll play 2 team matches
• Each team has 4 players
• Each player plays 2 games

We're playing against the team just below us in 6th position, and the bottom-placed team. I have very little frame of reference for knowing how well I'll do, other than that one of the players in the 6th place team (who has 55%) is a very awkward OX LP player who I lost to 3-1 in the recent South Shields GP. I was very tired (last game of the day) and I really wanted to go home by that point though so I think if I play to the best of my ability I'll be able to beat him this time round.

Exciting stuff I have to drive for 5 hours tomorrow afternoon to stay in a hotel so I can be up early on the Sunday, then drive 5 hours back the same evening. Will be a long day.

I'm not too bothered about how many I win... but I'd like to get a couple to show that I'm worthy of being in the team, even in the #4 position. That way hopefully they'll ask me to come back next season!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Well done Dunc, sounds exciting. Are all the venues that far away or is this an exception. I thought i was the only one that had to travel that far for a game.

What's the format of the 4 v4, no doubles?

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There's a North division too which is nearer me (still ~2.5 hours) but none of the teams in D5 or D4 North needed players. It's one venue which all of the teams congregate at so it has to be roughly central for each of the South/Midlands/North sectors. Unfortunately for me I live in the northernmost city in England

The format is indeed 4v4 with 2 games of doubles. I presume it's 1&2 vs. 1&2 and 3&4 vs. 3&4 but I'm not entirely sure about that and can't fully work it out on the results page.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Sounds good . Do I understand correctly that you only have to play two individual matches?? In that case it's a lot of driving...

Belgium is so small and at the same time has a real strong competition, so we don't have such problems. There's almost a club in every corner. Still, tonight all league matches in our Province are cancelled because of a little snow...

I see you switched back to JSH? What made you decide this?

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I will play 4 singles matches in total... So over 1 hour of driving per match Plus 2 doubles matches. In April I'll be playing the final weekend of British League (for this season) which is 2 days, so 8 singles matches and 4 doubles - for the same amount of driving. Hopefully next season I'll be able to find a team in the North division (2.5 hours) and play all 4 weekends (total of 28 singles matches and 14 doubles).

I play in two local County leagues, both have a decent standard, but this is the UK's equivalent of the Bundesliga for table tennis in Germany, so it's a much higher standard (though less so than most European leagues I'd imagine). Most of the Premier players in British League are paid to play.

Yeah, back to the JSH and back to P1-R... Same old story, I just felt like I was lacking penetration with the Defence Pro. I'm overhitting again now though I'll stick with it for the rest of this season and decide at the end what I want to do. I love the feeling of the LT Sound on this blade and to be honest that's probably enough for me to keep it.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Oh and I'm definitely going to try to record all of my matches if at all possible

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Well that couldn't have gone much better



My first match was tough. Max is ranked #9 in England in the U13 band. I was incredibly nervous. Got less than 5 minutes' knock and this match was important for the team - we needed at least a draw. Not my best table tennis.. and I was more than a tad fortunate Still happy to win though, especially considering I was 2-1 down and he battered me in the 3rd end.



Second match was against their #4 player. He was better against backspin than Max but much less consistent. He was very good at retrieving though... :O



I recorded the other two matches but frankly my opponents were of a pretty poor standard, so they're not really worth a watch. I might upload them at some point.

The driving wasn't bad at all either. I managed 238 miles in 211 minutes on the way back and didn't feel the need to stop.

The only dampener to yesterday's play is that there appears to be some internal politicking within the team. The original players from the actual Cliffedale Chandlers club aren't too happy than an outsider has been brought in. I didn't take this personally as I understand it and I know I performed to the required level. We'll see what happens, I hope I get the opportunity to play the full weekend of play in April.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Great stuff. Always best to get them while they are young.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

So, having watched these back a few times now - as well as playing a league match last night - the things I need to work on are as follows:

Forehand loop
For a while I've been working on bringing my arm properly through the ball, slightly across my body, to end up with my wrist saluting my eyebrow. In practice, this is fine - I do it regularly. However, in matches, as seen in the video above, I'm still often either not coming across my body properly (bat is held facing forward with a gap between it and my head) or I'm cocking my wrist at the wrong angle.

This is particularly noticeable against backspin, which is probably ~80% of the incoming balls I loop in a match and maybe 10% that I loop in practice. Basically therefore I need to change my practice drills a bit, start looping against backspin again.

The other thing I've noticed with my forehand is that I loop a lot of second/third balls off the table. Obviously my opponent is blocking and my topspin is coming back to me, which I'm not adjusting to. I don't really understand how or why though, and this issue has only occurred since I moved to the LT Sound.

To alleviate this I'll try the following drill:

• I serve backspin
• Partner pushes to my forehand
• I loop a ball with good spin
• Partner blocks the ball, trying to continue the topspin
• I attempt to loop/kill

Only problem I'll have with that drill is that my regular practice partner doesn't push with spin - he tends to lift his bat up to take the spin off the ball. That's not how the majority of my league opponents play.

Off the table play on the forehand side
I'm still in the habit of "padding" the ball back on. It's like fishing... but it isn't, really. It's like a long-distance block. It's a passive shot and although sometimes it's useful as a form of variation, it certainly shouldn't be my defacto shot from that range on my forehand.

Occasionally I loop from that distance and occasionally I chop. Either of those things would be fine as the main priority shot... but I need to actually do it. Ideally, my preference would be for the forehand chop to be my defacto shot. I'd genuinely like to play Joo-esque, using the forehand chop until a weaker ball/push becomes available to loop. It would also leave me the counter-loop as an option to change the pace/spin.

My forehand chop is hugely improved after a visit to WSA and considerable time spent with Fabian learning it. I don't always time it right at the moment but it's always heavy. The main problem I have is that I never feel ready to use my forehand chop. I back away and read incoming loops well to my backhand, but I don't on my forehand.

I know exactly why this is! My regular practice partner is a left-hander. The stroke he plays to come into my forehand is more like a loop-drive and it isn't his most consistent shot. As a result, I'm not used to spinny loops to my forehand and I'm certainly not used to a right-hander's natural sidespin on this side. Unfortunately this is a bit trickier for me to practice because I don't regularly practice with any right-handers. Hopefully in the next summer season I'll be playing with a new team and I'll be able to use some of those guys to practice. It's not so much the actual technique of the chop that I struggle with, it's the movement from the table backwards and right.

Staying low
An easy one to diagnose, but slightly more difficult to fix. I start off quite low when I'm receiving serve... but as soon as the ball starts moving, I tend to come right up. I don't know how much this affects in my game but it makes me look somewhat ungainly so I'd like to fix it

I think a lot of this comes down to fitness/quad muscles. When I practice (general matchplay practice with random people at the club, not drilling), if I'm tired, I tend not to stay low - I have a really narrow stance. I need to try to stop doing this... but obviously it's tricky when I'm tired. I also need to try to be more "present" during a game and keep reminding myself to stay low. I think I push better when I've got a low stance.

Short game
This is an on-going thing. My serve receive and my pushing just needs to keep improving. I'm absolutely loving the P1-R with a thick sponge for pushing because I can really feel the ball... but I need to be much, much better at pushing. I need to be more patient, but I also need to stop thinking about pushing whilst I'm playing because thinking too much about the actual push is stopping me from reading my opponent's physical cues. Last night I was so busy worrying about pushing that every so often my opponent managed to blast a forehand past me because I was in totally the wrong place.

In terms of service receive, I don't really fear any serves now... but I still get caught out. I think it's concentration a lot of the time. I need to be better prepared for long, fast serves to my backhand. They're easy to return with this setup, but not if I'm stretching.

The way I intend to practice this is by playing patient defensive games against all of my opponents in practice in the future. I'll throw the odd loop in when I feel like I'm in the right position to do so (concentrating on form), but otherwise I'll try to push and chop primarily.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

If your second/third ball goes out, then that means your loop against block starts too low (like in low if you loop backspin). Start your swing a bit higher and that will solve the problem.



If you watch a young Joo, you'd notice his default shot at his FH was a loop. So you might want to change your intended priority shot.



Yes, this has already been mentioned a lot of times in your blog.

As my game progresses, it's easy to see where my weaknesses come from. My regular playing partner is a left-hander, consistency isn't (yet) his strong point, he tends to drive the ball down my forehand side and he's unable to push or serve with any real backspin at all. My weaknesses are forehand chop, staying in rallies and making mistakes on pushes against varied heavy/less heavy spin. His strength is blocking, my strength is looping...

I had this discussion with a friend of mine who is a ~75% average player in our Premier division. He's currently injured - recovering from a knee replacement - but he's starting to get back into the game and he mentioned that he'd be happy to give me some chopping practice. He's a very spinny right-hander.



I started off horrendously. Literally took me about 30 loops to start returning them properly. Once I did, you can see that he's struggling with the backspin - though in fairness it's almost impossible to loop heavy backspin when you can't use your knees!

It's nowhere near perfect. I'm happy enough with how the stroke looks, but I need my right foot to be positioned better and I need to get my chops longer. I'm happy with just getting them on at the moment as there are few players that could blast a ball past me even if they're short when there's that much backspin on the ball and previously my only option was to roll the ball back.

I'm starting to use this stroke in matchplay too. Got to be honest, I love it. I love being able to chop one, force a push, loop the push. I love seeing players attempt to loop or slap the ball and have it bounce on their side before even reaching the net..

Small progress!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)