OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 18:07


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 705 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 ... 47  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2017, 20:24 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
OK so I won another 3 games last night, against weaker opponents... but the SP-doubt is already back in my mind :D

I push better, and receive serve better, but I only chopped the ball about 3 times and succeeded in 0 of those efforts lol.

The problem I have with SPs is that they encourage me to stay close to the table. I can block with them pretty reasonably and I can hit with them well... so against weaker players in particular, I end up doing exactly that.

I'm now wondering if the middle ground - a soft LP like FL3 which I have more inverted-like feeling with - might be the answer. But when I last played with FL3 I got annoyed at how little backspin it produces on chops in comparison to P1-R.

So... what is the answer? I need a rubber with inverted-like feel which can produce nasty backspin on chops. GO :D

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 08 Feb 2017, 21:37 
Offline
Iron Pips
Iron Pips
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 22:07
Posts: 4506
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Has thanked: 698 times
Been thanked: 590 times
Blade: Matador
FH: Tibhar K1 Euro
BH: SuperGlanti
dunc wrote:
OK so I won another 3 games last night, against weaker opponents... but the SP-doubt is already back in my mind :D

I push better, and receive serve better, but I only chopped the ball about 3 times and succeeded in 0 of those efforts lol.

The problem I have with SPs is that they encourage me to stay close to the table. I can block with them pretty reasonably and I can hit with them well... so against weaker players in particular, I end up doing exactly that.

I'm now wondering if the middle ground - a soft LP like FL3 which I have more inverted-like feeling with - might be the answer. But when I last played with FL3 I got annoyed at how little backspin it produces on chops in comparison to P1-R.

So... what is the answer? I need a rubber with inverted-like feel which can produce nasty backspin on chops. GO :D


I've been down that road, ended up with TSP Millitall. Try it, same sponge as Spectol I think, easy to use but not much pimple effect and not very easy to attack with or block with (but it is doable). Great control though.

But... I ended up in another path because I wanted more effect and MP or SP gave me too many possibilities, I got caughtnin the middle not knowing what stroke to chose. The amount of back spin will not save you, but how you can control it and trick your opponent will. Spectol is among the best there but Millitall is also good, just a little more defensive and a little more bite in pushes.

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 00:05 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
Ah I dunno if I wanna go down the line of a MP, DA. I understand your thought process but I've tried Pimplemini in a few sponge thicknesses in the past and I never really got on with it. Very, very easy to use... but not very effective at anything.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 16:32 
Offline
Iron Pips
Iron Pips
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 22:07
Posts: 4506
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Has thanked: 698 times
Been thanked: 590 times
Blade: Matador
FH: Tibhar K1 Euro
BH: SuperGlanti
dunc wrote:
Ah I dunno if I wanna go down the line of a MP, DA. I understand your thought process but I've tried Pimplemini in a few sponge thicknesses in the past and I never really got on with it. Very, very easy to use... but not very effective at anything.

I understand that Pimpellini and Millitall are very similar, so you have done what you need to close that door. But you will continue to feel unsatisfied unless you find the ultimate allround weapon (don't think you will) or just accept that you won't have both attacking possibilities and safe chopping together. I also tried Spectol and ended up closer to the table and then had difficulties moving back for chops. I missed the spin reversal close to the table. And I could not really attack with it... With my anti I don't have many options, I can block topspin and attack back spin, and that is pretty much it... it helps me. And I try to twiddle.

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 20:32 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop.

The 3 things I'm looking for are:
  • Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
  • LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
  • Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 09 Feb 2017, 20:45 
Offline
Iron Pips
Iron Pips
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 22:07
Posts: 4506
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Has thanked: 698 times
Been thanked: 590 times
Blade: Matador
FH: Tibhar K1 Euro
BH: SuperGlanti
dunc wrote:
I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop.

The 3 things I'm looking for are:
  • Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
  • LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
  • Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?


Don't think there is one that does it all, but a few that might have a gold (for you) balance between these parameters. If you haven't tried Dawei 388D with at least 1,0 mm sponge you should do that (cheap rubber). Also FII could be an option here.

_________________
Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 03:43 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 00:31
Posts: 443
Location: Maryland, USA
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 78 times
Blade: VKMO
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Victas Spectol S1
Def-attack wrote:
dunc wrote:
I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop.

The 3 things I'm looking for are:
  • Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
  • LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
  • Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?


Don't think there is one that does it all, but a few that might have a gold (for you) balance between these parameters. If you haven't tried Dawei 388D with at least 1,0 mm sponge you should do that (cheap rubber). Also FII could be an option here.

+1 :P FL3 produces good backspin for me lol

_________________
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive FL
FH: Victas VS > 401 2.0
BH: Victas Spectol S1 1.5

Rating: Recreational Player


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 04:43 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 05:38 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2524
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 563 times
Been thanked: 512 times
Blade: Koji Matsushita
FH: Tibhar MX-S Max
BH: Yasaka Rising Dragon 2.0
dunc wrote:
FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

For me it depended on the opponent. Against low-spin opponents, FL3 can add more spin....by a lot.

But against anyone else that plays with spin (90% of the players out there) the P-1R was far more...by a lot.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2017, 06:49 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
Japsican wrote:
dunc wrote:
FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

For me it depended on the opponent. Against low-spin opponents, FL3 can add more spin....by a lot.

But against anyone else that plays with spin (90% of the players out there) the P-1R was far more...by a lot.

I concur!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 02:21 
Offline
Ping Pong Diplomat
Ping Pong Diplomat
User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2010, 21:44
Posts: 1105
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 228 times
Been thanked: 279 times
Blade: Victas KMO
FH: Yasaka Rising Dragon
BH: Cloud and Fog III
dunc wrote:
I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop.

The 3 things I'm looking for are:
  • Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
  • LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
  • Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?

...doesn't exist. If it did. I'd be using it lol. I just abandoned the idea of having a loaded push because I can always twiddle the racket and use inverted for that. I know pushing with FL3 can get you some points because your opponent expects no spin....but that will work for about 3 points lol


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 03:38 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
I'm actually not bothered about heavy pushes either LB - there's only so much backspin you can get with LPs, even from rubbers like FLIII. I learnt pretty quick that depth makes all the difference.

HOWEVER, the reason I moved to SPs then to FLIII is because I realllly struggle with losing points from stupid pushes when using the more LP-like LPs. With FLIII, because it's softer and more inverted-like, I find I'm really quite consistent with it and I can get the ball long.

With P1-R on the other hand, sometimes the ball just seems to drop off my bat. I feel like, to play an inverted-esque push, I have to really aggressively and firmly make contact with the ball. This doesn't come naturally to me! I've practised and practised pushing with my P1-R but it always feels different in a match (different incoming spin from different types of pushes/players, usually) and honestly it's my #1 frustration in table tennis. As soon as I moved to SPs, I got 3-4 points per end better against similar level or weaker opponents purely because I wasn't making stupid mistakes pushing with LPs.

So I was hoping to find a softer more inverted-like LP purely for that purpose. FLIII meets this requirement, but its backspin on chops is really underwhelming when you've played with P1-R for so long.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 05:22 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2017, 00:31
Posts: 443
Location: Maryland, USA
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 78 times
Blade: VKMO
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Victas Spectol S1
dunc wrote:
I'm actually not bothered about heavy pushes either LB - there's only so much backspin you can get with LPs, even from rubbers like FLIII. I learnt pretty quick that depth makes all the difference.

HOWEVER, the reason I moved to SPs then to FLIII is because I realllly struggle with losing points from stupid pushes when using the more LP-like LPs. With FLIII, because it's softer and more inverted-like, I find I'm really quite consistent with it and I can get the ball long.

With P1-R on the other hand, sometimes the ball just seems to drop off my bat. I feel like, to play an inverted-esque push, I have to really aggressively and firmly make contact with the ball. This doesn't come naturally to me! I've practised and practised pushing with my P1-R but it always feels different in a match (different incoming spin from different types of pushes/players, usually) and honestly it's my #1 frustration in table tennis. As soon as I moved to SPs, I got 3-4 points per end better against similar level or weaker opponents purely because I wasn't making stupid mistakes pushing with LPs.

So I was hoping to find a softer more inverted-like LP purely for that purpose. FLIII meets this requirement, but its backspin on chops is really underwhelming when you've played with P1-R for so long.

Apparently, Curl p4 chops have a little bit more backspin; I have no idea if that's true though.

_________________
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita Offensive FL
FH: Victas VS > 401 2.0
BH: Victas Spectol S1 1.5

Rating: Recreational Player


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 05:32 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1937
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 193 times
Been thanked: 191 times
Blade: Victas Koji Matsushita ZC
FH: BTY Dignics 64 (2.1mm)
BH: Victas P1V (1.5mm)
Mmmm, I hadn't thought about P4. That could be an option!

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2017, 06:00 
Offline
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
Ninja of the Holy Chtchet
User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 13:38
Posts: 2524
Location: Washington DC
Has thanked: 563 times
Been thanked: 512 times
Blade: Koji Matsushita
FH: Tibhar MX-S Max
BH: Yasaka Rising Dragon 2.0
dunc wrote:
Mmmm, I hadn't thought about P4. That could be an option!

P4 leans more towards P-1R than FL3. It's not as grippy in my opinion. I have black and red (acquired the red from Pgpg).

I just can't break up with P-1R for chopping.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!"

Projects: Player Equipment Grid
Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 705 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 ... 47  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 58 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group