OOAK Table Tennis Forum :: Learning to play: as a modern defender

OK so I won another 3 games last night, against weaker opponents... but the SP-doubt is already back in my mind

I push better, and receive serve better, but I only chopped the ball about 3 times and succeeded in 0 of those efforts lol.

The problem I have with SPs is that they encourage me to stay close to the table. I can block with them pretty reasonably and I can hit with them well... so against weaker players in particular, I end up doing exactly that.

I'm now wondering if the middle ground - a soft LP like FL3 which I have more inverted-like feeling with - might be the answer. But when I last played with FL3 I got annoyed at how little backspin it produces on chops in comparison to P1-R.

So... what is the answer? I need a rubber with inverted-like feel which can produce nasty backspin on chops. GO

Ah I dunno if I wanna go down the line of a MP, DA. I understand your thought process but I've tried Pimplemini in a few sponge thicknesses in the past and I never really got on with it. Very, very easy to use... but not very effective at anything.

I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop.

The 3 things I'm looking for are:

Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?

dunc wrote:

Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?

Don't think there is one that does it all, but a few that might have a gold (for you) balance between these parameters. If you haven't tried Dawei 388D with at least 1,0 mm sponge you should do that (cheap rubber). Also FII could be an option here.

FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

dunc wrote:

FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

For me it depended on the opponent. Against low-spin opponents, FL3 can add more spin....by a lot.

But against anyone else that plays with spin (90% of the players out there) the P-1R was far more...by a lot.

Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII
LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops
Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R

FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least).

Does any such rubber exist?

I'm actually not bothered about heavy pushes either LB - there's only so much backspin you can get with LPs, even from rubbers like FLIII. I learnt pretty quick that depth makes all the difference.

HOWEVER, the reason I moved to SPs then to FLIII is because I realllly struggle with losing points from stupid pushes when using the more LP-like LPs. With FLIII, because it's softer and more inverted-like, I find I'm really quite consistent with it and I can get the ball long.

With P1-R on the other hand, sometimes the ball just seems to drop off my bat. I feel like, to play an inverted-esque push, I have to really aggressively and firmly make contact with the ball. This doesn't come naturally to me! I've practised and practised pushing with my P1-R but it always feels different in a match (different incoming spin from different types of pushes/players, usually) and honestly it's my #1 frustration in table tennis. As soon as I moved to SPs, I got 3-4 points per end better against similar level or weaker opponents purely because I wasn't making stupid mistakes pushing with LPs.

So I was hoping to find a softer more inverted-like LP purely for that purpose. FLIII meets this requirement, but its backspin on chops is really underwhelming when you've played with P1-R for so long.

Mmmm, I hadn't thought about P4. That could be an option!

Author:	dunc [ 08 Feb 2017, 20:24 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
OK so I won another 3 games last night, against weaker opponents... but the SP-doubt is already back in my mind I push better, and receive serve better, but I only chopped the ball about 3 times and succeeded in 0 of those efforts lol. The problem I have with SPs is that they encourage me to stay close to the table. I can block with them pretty reasonably and I can hit with them well... so against weaker players in particular, I end up doing exactly that. I'm now wondering if the middle ground - a soft LP like FL3 which I have more inverted-like feeling with - might be the answer. But when I last played with FL3 I got annoyed at how little backspin it produces on chops in comparison to P1-R. So... what is the answer? I need a rubber with inverted-like feel which can produce nasty backspin on chops. GO

Author:	Def-attack [ 08 Feb 2017, 21:37 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: OK so I won another 3 games last night, against weaker opponents... but the SP-doubt is already back in my mind I push better, and receive serve better, but I only chopped the ball about 3 times and succeeded in 0 of those efforts lol. The problem I have with SPs is that they encourage me to stay close to the table. I can block with them pretty reasonably and I can hit with them well... so against weaker players in particular, I end up doing exactly that. I'm now wondering if the middle ground - a soft LP like FL3 which I have more inverted-like feeling with - might be the answer. But when I last played with FL3 I got annoyed at how little backspin it produces on chops in comparison to P1-R. So... what is the answer? I need a rubber with inverted-like feel which can produce nasty backspin on chops. GO I've been down that road, ended up with TSP Millitall. Try it, same sponge as Spectol I think, easy to use but not much pimple effect and not very easy to attack with or block with (but it is doable). Great control though. But... I ended up in another path because I wanted more effect and MP or SP gave me too many possibilities, I got caughtnin the middle not knowing what stroke to chose. The amount of back spin will not save you, but how you can control it and trick your opponent will. Spectol is among the best there but Millitall is also good, just a little more defensive and a little more bite in pushes.

Author:	dunc [ 09 Feb 2017, 00:05 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Ah I dunno if I wanna go down the line of a MP, DA. I understand your thought process but I've tried Pimplemini in a few sponge thicknesses in the past and I never really got on with it. Very, very easy to use... but not very effective at anything.

Author:	Def-attack [ 09 Feb 2017, 16:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: Ah I dunno if I wanna go down the line of a MP, DA. I understand your thought process but I've tried Pimplemini in a few sponge thicknesses in the past and I never really got on with it. Very, very easy to use... but not very effective at anything. I understand that Pimpellini and Millitall are very similar, so you have done what you need to close that door. But you will continue to feel unsatisfied unless you find the ultimate allround weapon (don't think you will) or just accept that you won't have both attacking possibilities and safe chopping together. I also tried Spectol and ended up closer to the table and then had difficulties moving back for chops. I missed the spin reversal close to the table. And I could not really attack with it... With my anti I don't have many options, I can block topspin and attack back spin, and that is pretty much it... it helps me. And I try to twiddle.

Author:	dunc [ 09 Feb 2017, 20:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop. The 3 things I'm looking for are: Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least). Does any such rubber exist?

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Author:	Def-attack [ 09 Feb 2017, 20:45 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop. The 3 things I'm looking for are: Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least). Does any such rubber exist? Don't think there is one that does it all, but a few that might have a gold (for you) balance between these parameters. If you haven't tried Dawei 388D with at least 1,0 mm sponge you should do that (cheap rubber). Also FII could be an option here.

Author:	Danthespearton HQ [ 10 Feb 2017, 03:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Def-attack wrote: dunc wrote: I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop. The 3 things I'm looking for are: Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least). Does any such rubber exist? Don't think there is one that does it all, but a few that might have a gold (for you) balance between these parameters. If you haven't tried Dawei 388D with at least 1,0 mm sponge you should do that (cheap rubber). Also FII could be an option here. +1 FL3 produces good backspin for me lol

Author:	dunc [ 10 Feb 2017, 04:43 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Author:	Japsican [ 10 Feb 2017, 05:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk For me it depended on the opponent. Against low-spin opponents, FL3 can add more spin....by a lot. But against anyone else that plays with spin (90% of the players out there) the P-1R was far more...by a lot.

Author:	dunc [ 10 Feb 2017, 06:49 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Japsican wrote: dunc wrote: FLIII backspin doesn't come close to P1-R I'm afraid Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk For me it depended on the opponent. Against low-spin opponents, FL3 can add more spin....by a lot. But against anyone else that plays with spin (90% of the players out there) the P-1R was far more...by a lot. I concur!

Author:	leatherback [ 11 Feb 2017, 02:21 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: I'm actually not bothered about being able to attack with my backhand. It's useful against weaker opponents but realistically it just hurts my game against better players if my mind thinks I'm capable of attacking. As you say, I end up staying far too close to the table then being in an awful position for trying to chop. The 3 things I'm looking for are: Inverted-like feeling on pushes, e.g. SP or reactive LPs like FLIII LP-like feeling on chops, e.g. when the ball "grips in" to the pimples on heavy topspin loops Good backspin on chops, e.g. Curl P1-R FLIII does #1 for sure. It's not too bad for #2 either, I was chopping with it reasonably well... but it doesn't do #3 IMO (not in max sponge at least). Does any such rubber exist? ...doesn't exist. If it did. I'd be using it lol. I just abandoned the idea of having a loaded push because I can always twiddle the racket and use inverted for that. I know pushing with FL3 can get you some points because your opponent expects no spin....but that will work for about 3 points lol

Author:	dunc [ 11 Feb 2017, 03:38 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
I'm actually not bothered about heavy pushes either LB - there's only so much backspin you can get with LPs, even from rubbers like FLIII. I learnt pretty quick that depth makes all the difference. HOWEVER, the reason I moved to SPs then to FLIII is because I realllly struggle with losing points from stupid pushes when using the more LP-like LPs. With FLIII, because it's softer and more inverted-like, I find I'm really quite consistent with it and I can get the ball long. With P1-R on the other hand, sometimes the ball just seems to drop off my bat. I feel like, to play an inverted-esque push, I have to really aggressively and firmly make contact with the ball. This doesn't come naturally to me! I've practised and practised pushing with my P1-R but it always feels different in a match (different incoming spin from different types of pushes/players, usually) and honestly it's my #1 frustration in table tennis. As soon as I moved to SPs, I got 3-4 points per end better against similar level or weaker opponents purely because I wasn't making stupid mistakes pushing with LPs. So I was hoping to find a softer more inverted-like LP purely for that purpose. FLIII meets this requirement, but its backspin on chops is really underwhelming when you've played with P1-R for so long.

Author:	Danthespearton HQ [ 11 Feb 2017, 05:22 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: I'm actually not bothered about heavy pushes either LB - there's only so much backspin you can get with LPs, even from rubbers like FLIII. I learnt pretty quick that depth makes all the difference. HOWEVER, the reason I moved to SPs then to FLIII is because I realllly struggle with losing points from stupid pushes when using the more LP-like LPs. With FLIII, because it's softer and more inverted-like, I find I'm really quite consistent with it and I can get the ball long. With P1-R on the other hand, sometimes the ball just seems to drop off my bat. I feel like, to play an inverted-esque push, I have to really aggressively and firmly make contact with the ball. This doesn't come naturally to me! I've practised and practised pushing with my P1-R but it always feels different in a match (different incoming spin from different types of pushes/players, usually) and honestly it's my #1 frustration in table tennis. As soon as I moved to SPs, I got 3-4 points per end better against similar level or weaker opponents purely because I wasn't making stupid mistakes pushing with LPs. So I was hoping to find a softer more inverted-like LP purely for that purpose. FLIII meets this requirement, but its backspin on chops is really underwhelming when you've played with P1-R for so long. Apparently, Curl p4 chops have a little bit more backspin; I have no idea if that's true though.

Author:	dunc [ 11 Feb 2017, 05:32 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
Mmmm, I hadn't thought about P4. That could be an option!

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Author:	Japsican [ 11 Feb 2017, 06:00 ]
Post subject:	Re: Learning to play: as a modern defender
dunc wrote: Mmmm, I hadn't thought about P4. That could be an option! P4 leans more towards P-1R than FL3. It's not as grippy in my opinion. I have black and red (acquired the red from Pgpg). I just can't break up with P-1R for chopping.