OOAK Table Tennis Forum

The nittaku kvu arrived today, together with a sheet of curl p4. First impressions: blade looks good and feels slow, p4 seems slow mostly because of the sponge. P4 is probably the spinniest lp rubber I have ever seen.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Spinny as in able to impart spin? like inverted? or spinny as in able to create massive backspin while chopping?

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VKM
Tenergy 05 2.1
Feint Long III .5

As in able to impart spin. Just bouncing the ball you are able to create spin at a level of let's say a 1 year old inverted rubber. Also, Bounce a ball up with backspin, bounce it on the p4 and it takes off like a rocket same as it would on inverted so it is very sensitive to incoming spin as well.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

As mentioned the Nittaku KVU arrived today which means I now have all the blades I wanted to get. A good time for a moment of reflection to see how much the quest cost me so far.

Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence: 1 second hand, 2 new ones from tabletennis.inters.pl of which 1 unused
Joola Chen Weixing: 2 new ones bought at decathlon sports warehouse of which 1 unused
Nittaku KVU: 1 second hand one from a user on the pimp my blade forum
Nittaku Shake defense: I already owned this blade. Something special about this blade though, it is a prototype Nittaku shake defence which was given to me around 1987-1989
Tibhar stratus power defense: 1 new one from tabletennis.inters.pl
Victas Koji Matsushita: 1 new one from the local sport europe table tennis shop
Yasaka Sweeper: 1 new one from the local sport europe table tennis shop
Win-Tec power defence: 6 new ones from schuett-sport.de, 5 unused.

The grand total is....just under 400 euro or us$ 520 for 16 blades which means an average of around 30 euro/us$39 per blade. Most expensive is obviously the victas blade, cheapest one the win-tec. Coincidently these are also the blades I like best so far. Was it worth the money? So far I would say yes. I obviously could have kept the total cost down by buying just 1 and not 3 butterfly blades, 1 chen weixing and not 2 and 1 and not 6 win-tec blades.

The butterfly powerdefence I bought because I read in several places they may be going/are out of production but not sure if this is only outside of europe. The chen weixing blades i bought because they were on sale and the same goes for the win-tec blades. Would I have bought just 1 of each blade the total cost would be around 250 euro or us$ 325. And while this is not an experiment I could afford every month the total cost is still less than I expected. There is a good chance i will sell some of the blades either at my club or online.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Just a trivial question, King, but do you get checked by customs when buying so many items.

I find when the total amount is smaller, like less than 100$, than I don't get stung by customs as much...perhaps it works different in Europe with free trade.

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A big bag full of blades and long pimples, donuts and coffee!

These blades I all bought from europe so no problem with customs. I've ordered from China several times and never had to pay extra fees.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

At the club now, so far I've only played with the Victas against our strongest player who is ranked around the 70th place in Holland. My theory about having more time to anticipate the next ball seems to be correct. I lost and made too many unforced errors but there were times I actually had a decent chance. The 401 performed well, spin variation is very easy with this rubber.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Still at the club and played with the curl p4 on the stratus for about 10 minutes. Not sure what to make of this rubber. I think it's mostly the sponge that makes this rubber play so different. Very very soft and it seems to be a dampening sponge. Maybe the same as the one the super spinpips chop. The sponge reminds me of the sponge on the next chaos rubber. Less spin sensitive than I expected which is good. Not sure I like the feeling when hitting a ball as there is almost no sound at all because of the sponge. Attack and chop easy to play.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Back home after a good night of practice. As posted before I started against the best player at our club. He hardly has any weak points and his first attack is usually low, deep fast and spinny so if he gets the first attack right there's not much chance to win the point for me. Normally even if I return his first attack he will score the next one. To make things worse he is left handed. Two ways to overcome his strong first attack: either prevent a strong first attack or return the first attack with lots of spin/well placed/a bit of luck. This worked better than normally today, I played with the victas blade with the victas 401 on FH and dawei 388d on BH(and constantly twiddling). Even he had trouble lifting the chops from the 401 but unfortunately I made too many unforced errors. Surprisingly I made more errors with the pips than with the inverted. Later in the evening I found out the reason for the unforced errors: they were pretty much all on no spin balls. Chopping with the 388d on incoming spin was fantastic but on no or low spin balls the ball flew wide all the time. Still the result was good enough to continue with the victas blade, there is great potential here. I am pretty much set on the victas 401 as inverted now to find the right pips. next pips to try will most likely be palio ck531a.

To give you an idea of the level of this player, here is a video from last season. He is the non asian player. A note about the asian player: He was completely disinterested and unmotivated, I had a feeling if he really tried he would be able to easily play top 15 in Holland. He is currently ranked around the 30th place I think.

Second I played a lower ranked player and again what I noticed before turned out to be correct, against lower ranked players i have to work much harder to score points with the victas blade. I changed to the win-tec blade and the higher speed of this blade turned out to be an advantage against lower ranked players.

Lastly I played a higher ranked player, around 200th place in Holland. He can't smash a ball to save his life but he can spin 100 times in a row and place it anywhere he wants. So the ideal opponent to test my chops. As was to expected chopping went great and again he had problems lifting the chops from the 401. He is a very smart and experienced player and started to vary the amount of spin. It was then i realized the problem with the 388d were the no or low spin balls. My opponent also mentioned this to me and I confirmed he was right. Result was good, all games were close but the unforced errors on the low and no spin balls cost me the match. Had he kept spinning full out I would probably have won but smart opponents don't do that and i was glad to find out the problem was with the low and no spin balls. You can see a video(surprisingly the first point in the compilation is a smash) of this player on this link(embedding with a starting time doesn't seem to work) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLO46e_kyY#t=74s If the direct link to the starting time also doesn't work move to 1:14 in the video.

In between the matches I tried the curl p4 and as mentioned before this is a very special rubber. The pips themselves don't seem that special but combined with the sponge the result is at least interesting. The rubber was dead slow, able to generate spin on serves but less sensitive to incoming spin than I expected. Control was also better than expected, very few unforced errors with this rubber. I also played against this rubber and it is hard to read the amount of spin. The incoming bounce from this rubber is unpredictable because it is hard to see the amount of spin and even the direction of the spin. So there is great potential in this rubber and I will definitely try it again on friday.

I also played for about 10 minutes with the nittaku KVU with bluefire m2 and palio ck531a. The blade was slower than expected, control was great and the feeling when hitting was different from most other blades I tried. First impression is good, deserves more testing. I mentioned the short handle on the victas matsushita, the KVU is on the other end of the spectrum. The handle is longer than most other handles I have seen on blades which to me is a good thing.

I decided not to test the butterfly powerdefence any more mainly because of the weight. I also decided to stop testing the stratus blade. Not because it is a bad blade but it has nothing the other blades don't have. The next blade to go will most likely be the nittaku shake defense as I found the feeling on this blade fantastic but I play too passive with it.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

What about the P1-r pips? Have you ever tried? I'm currently using it on a XIOM Solo, but the blade is fast for chopping. I still can get good balls on the table, but sometimes it goes off or too high.

I think I'm already set, I'm going to ask for my friend to buy a victas matsushita, P1-r, P4 and a 401, most of it based on your reviews
So, thanks Elvis, helped me a lot!

I'll still be coming here to check on your journey!

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Andro Midori DEF - FH: Tibahr EL-P 1.9 - BH: TSP P1-r 0.5

I have a sheet of p1r but I think there is something wrong with that sheet. I keep reading it should be excellent for chopping with backspin but somehow every ball I hit is a no spin ball. I tried several blades, several sponges and also let other people try but still all no spin balls.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

I wonder if some of the unpredictability of the P4 is that it bottoms out so much more easily due to the soft sponge. When it bottoms out you mainly get reversal, but when it doesn't bottom out you get a lot of grip and good dwell time, so you can really load it up.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Some new developments: the quest has ended. The somewhat surprising result is that the blade I will be playing from now on is the Win-tec power def. As i wrote before on monday I did not play with the victas blade very long as nobody could return the chops from this blade combined with the victas 401 rubber. On wednesday I played with the victas for an hour or 2. I mentioned before the handle was a bit short and in the end this turned out to be a major problem. After playing with the victas on wednesday I woke up with a blister on my hand on thursday. I never had this before with any blade but unfortunately this means exit victas matsushita. While I could sand a bit here or there and maybe add about 0,5 cm to the handle I want to play the blade as it's supposed to be and as much factory default as possible.

The only blade i want to test a bit more is the nittaku KVU. So far it looks promising but it doesn't seem to be much better/more suited to my style than the win-tec.

So the blade is final, on monday I will the victas 401 on the win-tec blade. On the victas blade it worked very well and I expect it to work well on the win-tec also. Pips will be either dornenglanz or palio ck531a. While I had good disruptive effect with the 388d I somehow made too many unforced errors.

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence

Hi Elvis,

I was very surprised reading about your impressions of the handle of the VKM blade. I've got two VKM blades (bought in 2012 from Japan, before the hype) and I think of all handles I've played with, VKM has the most comfortable one. Length is as standard as it can be: 100mm. And thickness is 30 x 23 which is pretty standard or even slightly thicker than many other blades. Other blades I've tried feel thinner than VKM to me: Donic Defplay, Xiom Aigis, Butterfly JSH (28x23), Butterfly Defence II (30x22), Yinhe Schild. BTY Defence Pro has a good thickness but is shorter than all other blades: 95mm.

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

No updates for a while as it was very hot here the last few weeks with high humidity so not ideal to test blades and rubbers.

First of all a bit more backstory. I started experimenting with blades because I was supposed to play in a higher(national) division this coming season. This division is around my actual level, if I play well I could probably win around 60% of my matches. This is why I started experimenting with the blades as I would probably need any advantage I could get.

As you may have noticed I said was supposed to play.....I met some people from my old club about 2 months ago and I told them they were doing well as their first team promoted to a national division. The answer was well we have a bit of a problem as we don't really have enough players. So I said he should have called me to which he replied well we could still arrange that. So we agreed I would play at their club this coming season but unfortunately I have not heard from them since. So this coming season I will (again)play way below my actual level in a league where i have nothing to win and where I can only lose.

To get back to my quest for my ultimate blade. I mentioned already I pretty much settled on the win-tec power defence but I wanted to be sure so I tested all blades except the victas matsushita again. I also mentioned before none of the blades were bad blades and this was confirmed again. Some of my findings(all testes done with bluefire black 2.0 and d-tec(new), dawei 388d, palio ck531a and dornenglanz):

Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence:
- Huge spin with inverted, absolutely most spin of all blades tested
- Not exactly slow but still surprisingly high braking effect with pips
- Large handle which fells fantastic
- Very heavy, around 100 g
- Very well made
Did not choose this blade because it is too heavy

Joola Chen Weixing
- Fastest blade I tested
- Very well made, best of all the blades I tested
- Any pips rubber works fantastic on this blade, if you want strong reversal and wobble get this blade
- Very affordable
Did not choose this blade because it is not that much slower than my good old T-10 and the idea behind the quest was to find something significantly slower.

Nittaku KVU
- Feels different from most other blades because of the kevlar layers
- Slow and huge sweet spot
- very controlled on attack
- Long comfortable handle
- A bit pricey
Did not choose this blade because of availability and price. Quality wise I think I could play with this almost as well as with the win-tec but I fell it may be lacking in speed.

Nittaku Shake defense (as mentioned before this is a very old prototype version of this blade and it is most likely different from current versions)
- Too slow
- Very very controlled
- Great reversal with pips
- Expensive
Did not choose this blade because it would be very difficult if not impossible to find a second blade at least similar to this blade. I also feel it may be lacking in speed.

Tibhar stratus power defense
- Very well made with high quality wood and finishing
- Fantastic shape and handle, I will model all future homemade blades after this blade
- For some reason I can play active backhand with inverted much much easier than with any other blade
- Very controlled with pips, reversal and wobble not so strong
- Highly recommended for chopping
No special reason I did not choose this blade, after the last round of testing I was doubting if I should keep playing with the stratus but I settled for the win-tec as I already had 6 win-tec blades

Victas Koji Matsushita
- The best chopping blade i ever played with
- For my hands the handle is very uncomfortable. The length is a very common 10 cm but it just doesn't work for me. Several people on the german forums mentioned the same thing.
- Expensive
- Amazing spin with victas 401, hardly anyone could sping or even lift the ball on the second chop
- Decent reversal
Did not choose this blade because of the handle and also a bit because of the price. I can buy 4 win-tec blades for the price of 1 victas blade and while I like the victas blade it is not 4 times better than the win-tec

Yasaka Sweeper
- Slooooooooow and dead, think toxic 3 slow
I tested this blade for not even 15 minutes, I absolutely do not like the feeling of this blade. it is not bad but not suited for me.

Win-Tec power defence
- Cheap in the misprint version(only 15 euro)
- Terrible quality control with splintered wood on almost all blades, handles glued on at an angle, blades not even shaped symmetrical and low quality wood. The blades look like they have been used for years even when brand new
- It seems strange but even with this terrible quality control the blade plays absolutely fantastic
- Needs sanding and sealing
- Long comfortable handle
- For me the perfect balance between speed and control
- Works great on chops and blocks, ideal combination with dornenglanz

So for now the quest has come to an end. Only thing to test now is if I will use the bluefire 2.0 or victas 401 2.0. FOr the pips I will go with dornenglanz. I put the victas with d-tecs on one win-tec and bluefire with dornenglanz on another one. After playing today against our high ranked players(see previously posted videos) I decided to keep playing with the dornenglanz. Wobble doesn't help much against higher ranked players and I make fewer unforced errors with the dornenglanz. I mentioned the problem on dead balls with the 388d, this problem is non existent with dornenglanz. Dornenglanz is also surprisingly insensitive for incoming spin.

The biggest discovery on the quest was the fact that using a slower blade and slower pips give me just enough time to get ready for the next shot compared to my fast blade setup, the next big discovery was the problem with dead balls using 388d. To some degree d-tecs also has a problem with dead balls and for me d-tecs are too sensitive to high humidity and temperature.

If someone wants to buy a win-tec blade, still available for 15 euro on https://www.schuett-sport.de/ if you want I can guide you through the order process(which is a bit weird!) UPDATE: The win-tec power def is no longer on sale at shuett sport, it has in fact completely disappeared from the site. Contra.de still has it http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/i ... r-DEF.html

There may be an addition to the quest, Peter freundlieb, the guy behind TT-piet.de is building 2 blades with similar composition as the victas. Well he will glue the veneers, I will saw and sand the blade myself. To be continued...

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Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence