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PostPosted: 02 Jun 2014, 23:59 
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I found these sets of bats in a generic sports shop, going by the packaging I'd say they are from the 70s. Can anyone identify the players? (it's not a quiz, I have no idea who the players are). The blades vary greatly in weight, the black one and the wood color one are at least 20 gram apart. The Bigman is obviously more than a little bit inspired by the classic butterfly logo. Not sure if it's the rubber sponge or blade but the ball completely dies on all blades, no bounce at all. Not a little bit of bounce, it dies, it is no more, it ceases to be", it's bereft of life, it rests in peace. Could be interesting to see what causes the passing away of the bounce. (yes it's a monty python reference, for those who don't know google dead parrot sketch)

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_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 03 Jun 2014, 08:07 
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Great pictures!

They didn't mind you taking pictures, or were they too busy to notice?

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PostPosted: 03 Jun 2014, 10:06 
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haggisv wrote:
Great pictures!

They didn't mind you taking pictures, or were they too busy to notice?


No problem taking pictures at their shop. The owner seems to be a nice guy(as most Thai people are really). I'll see if I can take some pictures of their storage across the street where they store their tables and other larger stuff (and where they are usually welding metal for the tables).

Anyone have any idea about the photos of the players on that box?

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2014, 10:08 
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Long time no post but I've been training and testing all summer through. As I posted a while ago I play in a league a bit above my level. The league(6 teams with home and away matches) started last week and we had quite a bad start: we lost 10-0 (3 against 3, 1 doubles match). We had a substitute player from our second team, it was my first match at a decent level in many many years and our best player just got back from a 3 week holiday in Brasil. Conditions were not the best either: hot and humid and a very hard concrete floor.

My first match was against a completely unknown player, a refugee from Iran. To cut a long story short this was probably the best player I ever played a full match against. He started playing in Holland a long time ago but played at a high level in Iran. We later found out he only just lost to the dutch champion in a close match and beat several dutch top 20 players already. Not a good way to start the league for me but a good experience anyway.

The doubles match went better than expected, by now I changed to my defplay with dornenglanz as the shots from the d-tecs were flying all over the place. Decent match but in the end we lost in 5 sets.

Second match was again against a very good player, ranked in the top 50 and as I understood he was at one time national champion in the B category. I did not play well, too many unforced errors. Third match was not very good either, again too many unforced errors.

All in all we were of course not happy, I played nowhere near my usual level. Then again, we are basically a decent 3rd division team and we were playing a decent if not good 1st division team. There is a good chance this team will finish first.....

Unless our opponents from yesterday will finish first, this was a very strong team again. Again we lost, this time 9-1. However we all played much better this time. I played 3 more than decent matches, defense was going well, footwork was good, stamina was good but somewhat surprisingly my forehand was were I lost many points. The last few months I've been developing my backhand and apparently this has had a bad influence on my forehand. Passive play was ok but topspin and even smash was a problem. I moved in at the right time but I kept missing the active shot on the short ball and I kept missing spin on spin. I did play with the d-tecs setup in all matches.

This got me thinking and I am revisiting my quest for the ultimate blade from last year. I recently started playing with a(well actually 2) new sheets of vega japan and the new sheets are slower than the old sheet. Even now the old sheet which has been used for 150+ hours has a better bounce and speed than the new sheets. But I do need a bit more speed and power so I will be testing some blades again. Win-tec is the most obvious candidate so I will test that one first. There's only 1 blade I may test that I did not test before: the gionis carbon def. One problem with that blade though, it has a very dark color so I can't use most red pips sheets.

Speaking of blades, I ordered 9 defplay blades(I wanted one with a weight close to my favorite defplay) and the weight varied greatly from an amazingly low 73 gram to a somewhat heavier than average 89 gram. I tested the lightest ones, sold 3 blades and returned the rest to the shop. Still I can't find a defplay with the same feel as my first defplay(it's not one of the defplay blades with a balsa core which were apparently produced by mistake for a while).

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 22 Sep 2014, 10:36 
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Surprising to hear the new Vega Japan sheets were slower. Could it be due to the fact that you're playing much faster players, and find that you need more speed than what you're used to? Just a thought!
I think it's not unusual to find that older sheets are as fast or faster, I find that it's usually the spin that's lacking in the old sheets.

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2014, 22:24 
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Same thoughts as haggisv.
It could also be that you have to work on your technique. Just using your arm will give you only limited speed. If you want to impart a lot of speed with a slow blade you have to use your body a lot more. See on youtube how players like shiono (defplay and bluefire 2.0mm), joo see hyuk or kang dongsoo do this with their fh spin.


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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2014, 09:47 
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On sunday I analysed my matches on saturday and came to the conclusion I am playing the way I should play but I am not playing it well enough.

Defence was stable , I hardly lost any chopping rallies but my chops were not difficult enough for my opponent. So after 4,5 or more topspins to my BH my opponents played a short ball which I often mishit completely or I did not return it well enough and lost the point on the next shot. I anticipated on time and was in the right position to make the shot but somehow my timing was completely off. I did spend extra time training backhand shots all through the summer so at first I thought this was the problem. I hardly spent any time improving my forehand as my forehand has always been very stable. Then I figured out what was causing the timing problem: I lost about 5 kilo over the last 2 weeks. I noticed this before, timing changes a bit for me after losing weight. So a good 30 minutes of practice and all was good again with the forehand. I made too many unforced errors on serve receiving because I tried playing a difficult shot for my opponent too often. High risk shots and many went just a few centimeters wide but this should improve.

Serving went well, some direct points for me and in general my opponents could not make a strong attacking shot on my serve. Spin is less important at this level, I often served short and low with pips. passive forehand was more than decent, some chops every now and then and blocking from about second position. Stamina was good, much better than it was a year ago. Footwork was also good enough so the main problems were the unforced errors and the curve and spin on chops.

So I decided to test a few blade and rubber combinations on monday evening. Firewall+ with talon, chen weixing with palio, wintec with genius sound optimum and dornenglanz, wintec with vega japan and palio, defplay with aurus and dornenglanz, defplay with genius sound and palio, co-s3 with palio, koji matsushita with victas 401 and palio ck531a and a few more combinations but you get the idea. I tested a little bit of everything, some blades faster, some blades slower, some heavier, some lighter.

I knew more or less how all the blades and rubbers play so first I hit a few minutes with all the combinations I glued up. Some I didn't like instantly(firewall+talon) others I really liked instantly (wintec+aurus+dornenglanz and matsushita+401+palio) and others were soso.

Initially I played with the wintec+genius+dornenglanz bat the most. This was fantastic at receiving serves, chops were lower and chops had more spin. Close to the table this bat was more than decent but lacking some braking effect on fast balls. I decided to give the matsushita blade a try. I didn't test this blade extensively last year as the handle gave me a blister on my middle finger. The victas 401 produces amazing amounts of spin, I remembered that. What I didn't remember(as I didn't test this back then) is that the palio ck531 a produces use backspin on chops. or better said, the sheeday I glued on produces amazing amounts of backspin/spin continuation on chops. I have many sheets of ck531a and there are many variations between sheets. Yellow packaging with sponge, yellow packaging without sponge, blue packaging with sponge. All sheets are a bit different, even the ones in the same packaging. Anyway this combination was a success from the first ball I hit. Serves had far above average amounts of spin, chops with pips were low, flat,short and had huge spin, chops with the victas 401 had so much spin there was no way for my opponents to spin.

Monday night after training I glued some more blades and rubbers which I tested during daytime training on Tuesday. Many decent combinations bu nothing that felt as good as the Matsushita blade. That is to say feel good playing, not feel good holding the blade as I developed a bit of a blister already after half an hour of play.

But as always the real test is on wednesdays when I train against the high level players. The results were pretty much the same as on monday and tuesday: less unforced errors, better control of placement, more spin continuation on chops, lower chops and more spin on chops with inverted. And also not unimportant: my forehand was back. Several players noticed right away I played different than usual and had way more trouble attacking my chops. The more difficult chops resulted in more short shots which means more opportunities to score with my forehand. So all in all this looks promising. One player I usually have very close matches with could hardly get more than 2 topspins going against me today(he commented on the low, short loaded chops). Right after he played against me he played against or top defender(tsp balsa 3.5 with d-tecs) and he beat him easily. All chops from the d-tecs had a high curve and way less spin than my chops so he could attack all he wanted.

I also analysed why the defplay-vega japan-d-tecs combination didn't work for me anymore. As I mentioned before the sheets of vega japan I am using now are slower and have less catapult so that is one reason. I also started using a new sheet of d-tecs a while ago and again this one also feels/plays different than my old sheet. The old sheet is not really worn out but I like to keep a backup. What was driving me crazy about d-tecs is that it performs so badly in humid environments. The last 2 months or so were very humid so wasn't ideal for the d-tecs. The curve on d-tecs is usually a bit high, especially in humid environments. I was thinking of moving to defplay-vega japan-dornenglanz (this combination seems to work well, tested with my old vega sheet) but as I said before the newer vega sheets don't feel as good as the old one. I tested some lighter rubbers, aurus sound, genius sound optimum, genius sound and all these rubbers somehow felt better than the vega japan. Arm speed is higher with the lighter rubbers so even if the rubbers are basically slower than the vega japan I end up hitting the ball harder.

From the first time I tried the defplay I liked it mostly because of the control. I noticed immediately disruptive effect with the defplay was less than with most other blades I have. But the results were there immediately( I won the national tournament) so I kept playing with the defplay. By now I have 5 defplay blades, 4 with more or less the same weight at around 78 gram and 1 that is extremely light at 73 gram. Still all blades play different, mostly the speed is different. Funny enough the first defplay I bought is still my favorite.

Oh and the grip on the matsushita? I finally sanded the wings a bit and all is fine now.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2014, 15:42 
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Elvis56 wrote:
I was thinking of moving to defplay-vega japan-dornenglanz (this combination seems to work well, tested with my old vega sheet) but as I said before the newer vega sheets don't feel as good as the old one. I tested some lighter rubbers, aurus sound, genius sound optimum, genius sound and all these rubbers somehow felt better than the vega japan. Arm speed is higher with the lighter rubbers so even if the rubbers are basically slower than the vega japan I end up hitting the ball harder.

I am now playing with Defplay + Rakza 7 max + DG, which I copied from forum member auzcar. It has worked well. I have also played Vega pro on the FH and dtecs and Talon on the BH. Propably the Rakza is not far away from Xiom rubbers.

With dtecs I had lot overshooting problems and Talon was more controlled alternative. For me the DG is a bit different animal. With dtecs and Talon you could take most shots with vertical blade, but with DG you have to pick hit or roll every underspin instead of pushing. This rolling type of shot is my new favorite and often it gives surprisingly good top/sidespins that surprises opponents. With DG I don't have overshooting problems, maybe more undershooting and netting problems.

Spin speed relation is better in Defplay than in my old Firewall, so loops dip much more secure to the table and it has given confidence to loop more. And FW+ is bit boring to play with pips, as the ball just zings away and you don't have enough time to do much. With Defplay and DG you have time to do all kinds of swipes and things.

I haven't had to chance to try the other blades you are using.

With Palio the problem was in the certain spin/speed ceiling, after which it lost control totally and ball were all over the place. Maybe it work better with matsushita blade. Otherwise palio gave best "real" chopping feeling, like chopping with sponge.


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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2014, 22:48 
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I've really enjoyed reading this thread about your adventures in modern defense. Since I also use the Defplay, I thought it might be cool to find out the weight of other players' blades. It sounds like the Defplay can come in anywhere from the low 70's to almost 90 grams! That's a very wide range (and doesn't speak too highly about the quality control during production).

I'd like to find out which weight Defplay others prefer and what the main differences in playing characteristics are of lighter blades vs heavier ones. I would assume heavier Defplays would play faster, but you never know. I believe both my Defplay blades are around 74-76 grams. I haven't weighed them without rubber attached in a very long time though.

I've been interested in getting a flared handle Defplay (both of mine are straight) and I thought I might request a heavier blade (around 85 grams) to compare to my two. Any extra thoughts on straight vs flared handles on the Defplay would be appreciated too!

I hope this isn't too off topic for the thread. -CK

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 15:38 
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Hi Elvis, The blade you have ( galaxy T10) is an fantastic , but also try the T2, you can try palio 531 with 0.6 sponge and also meteor 71.1 ox is very very good on fast blade and good spin revers, ....on joola chen weixing try spin lord zeitgeist or blitzchlag , i know a guy who play with this combo on 2200 u s ranking and its very very deceptive . but for sure forget the yasaka swipper .


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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 16:14 
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Just noticed the question about the two players at the start of the thread. The second player is Gabor Gergely of Hungary, while I think the first player might be Patrick Birocheau of France - I have a photo in an old book by Jim Hammersley (early 1980's) that shows a bearded Birocheau who looks fairly similar to the guy in the photo at the top of this thread.

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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 17:20 
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pipsmaster wrote:
Hi Elvis, The blade you have ( galaxy T10) is an fantastic , but also try the T2, you can try palio 531 with 0.6 sponge and also meteor 71.1 ox is very very good on fast blade and good spin revers, ....on joola chen weixing try spin lord zeitgeist or blitzchlag , i know a guy who play with this combo on 2200 u s ranking and its very very deceptive . but for sure forget the yasaka swipper .


I am/was pretty much done testing blades as I am happy with the tsp balsa 3.5. However just a few days ago I ordered a sword combi blade and I also started going through my blades. T10 I may try again with the plastic ball, cwx, butterfly power defence and stratus defense are to be tested again as well.

As I said I'm happy with the tsp balsa 3.5 but sometimes it seems to lack power with plastic balls because the blade is pretty light.

Sweeper blade is dead slow, I recently tried it again and while control is great and the blade is very well suited for chopping I don't think it suits my style.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 17:20 
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DTopSpirit wrote:
Just noticed the question about the two players at the start of the thread. The second player is Gabor Gergely of Hungary, while I think the first player might be Patrick Birocheau of France - I have a photo in an old book by Jim Hammersley (early 1980's) that shows a bearded Birocheau who looks fairly similar to the guy in the photo at the top of this thread.


Ah finally mystery solved!

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 17:44 
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Elvis56 wrote:
I am/was pretty much done testing blades as I am happy with the tsp balsa 3.5. However just a few days ago I ordered a sword combi blade and I also started going through my blades. T10 I may try again with the plastic ball, cwx, butterfly power defence and stratus defense are to be tested again as well.

As I said I'm happy with the tsp balsa 3.5 but sometimes it seems to lack power with plastic balls because the blade is pretty light.

Sweeper blade is dead slow, I recently tried it again and while control is great and the blade is very well suited for chopping I don't think it suits my style.

Do you sometimes find that every time you try the same blade, after a long period of time, it feels different again? :lol: :lol: :lol: I think we continue to adapt to new equipment, which changes our perception of old equipment we've tried before. :oops:

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide


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PostPosted: 10 Sep 2015, 17:53 
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haggisv wrote:
Elvis56 wrote:
I am/was pretty much done testing blades as I am happy with the tsp balsa 3.5. However just a few days ago I ordered a sword combi blade and I also started going through my blades. T10 I may try again with the plastic ball, cwx, butterfly power defence and stratus defense are to be tested again as well.

As I said I'm happy with the tsp balsa 3.5 but sometimes it seems to lack power with plastic balls because the blade is pretty light.

Sweeper blade is dead slow, I recently tried it again and while control is great and the blade is very well suited for chopping I don't think it suits my style.

Do you sometimes find that every time you try the same blade, after a long period of time, it feels different again? :lol: :lol: :lol: I think we continue to adapt to new equipment, which changes our perception of old equipment we've tried before. :oops:


Definitely, sometimes when I try a blade again it feels different or I notice different characteristics. Halfway during last season for some reason the vkm/dornenglanz combo didn't work for me anymore. I changed to tsp balsa 3.5 with d-tecs and I played much better immediately. Strange thing is when I initially tested the tsp balsa a year or so ago I didn't like it so much. So yes revisiting blades every now and then can be good.

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence


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