OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have a friend that plays PF4 on FH, and have hit with it a bit before, and its slow and spinny, good for serving, and in 1.8 it should be slower but better to chop with than 2.0.

I haven't ever played with C7, Sanwei Code or Spinlord DG, so shouldn't comment on those, other than to say you should try to choose one that will longer term be able to produce the best overall game for the way you want to play.

I really don't see the point in having one setup to "train" with and a different one to play matches with. I think it would more likely defeat the purpose of training, because the way I see it, you are trying to get your reactions and muscles to reliably control the ball, which would take different strokes with the 2 setups. I think you'd be wiser to take either the Sanwei Code or Spinlord DG, and put which you think would work the better of the two for your game on the black side of the training blade, so you can determine if the C7 or one of the others is the "right" rubber for your game. I will also say that I would want to decide that based on match play after having played with that setup a few weeks, and against familiar opponents. If possible, I would try to tape those matches so I could analyze how I was playing and which shots worked best and which needed the most improvement.

I say this just based on having gone down so many similar paths and being a good analyst and guesser, not that I have any coaching expertise. What I know is that for me, everytime I change anything in my setup, it takes a couple weeks to get it working reasonably, and about 6 months to really get it tuned it to where I'm playing my best.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

The main reason behind the 'training' setup is just that at club training, when there are a dozen or more people, doing multiball, or working in pairs doing FH, BH drills, or serve bh attack fh or whatever, trying to do this with only one inverted is very tricky.

As a relatively novice player I find I get quite a lot out of these foundational drills, and even though under match situations I'd have to twiddle to hit a BH shot with inverted, I feel that a reasonable compromise is that for these cases having a double inverted of the same rubber on the same blade is worth a try. It's true that the PF4/C7 combo is a lot lighter, so it may cause all sorts of problems, but I'll give it a go.

Regarding Spinlord DG and Sanwei Code, they weren't hugely different - I think the Code is a bit faster, but they behave pretty similarly. I think I opted for the C7 because its been in the back of my mind, and I had a chance to get all the rubbers at the same time at a very attractive price, so just made the snap decision. I don't propose to change it any time soon, so it'll be very interesting to see how things progress.

Filming is absolutely the thing to do. Should be easier now it's the close season - more space and a more relaxed environment. Unfortunately my Dad, against whom I play often, is away for most of the summer, so I'll need to find another good training partner to record myself against.

I have some clips I recorded with my phone - surprisingly good quality - using the new iPhone with slow-motion facility. I just need to work out how to upload them to my computer and publish them. Any hints most welcome.

Match tonight... I'm excitedly looking forward to it. The opposition is strong, and I'd expect to lose all 3... in straight sets. If I get a set I'll be delighted. More important is assessing how I feel my footwork and shot selection went.

More soon.

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Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I do multiball every week, both feeding and hitting. I just use which ever rubber they want to feed balls, and when I'm hitting, I get the same balls as anyone else would get, but I use my equipment to practice good ways to return them.

When doing drills I try to play how I would normally like to play if its a drill for me, and if its a drill for my partner, I do it however he would like it done. We alternate about every 5 to 10 min.

I know that in my case, if I so much as hit with any setup other than mine, it takes a lot of sharpness off my game because I need to adjust back to my setup.

If you have a way, try to record 1 match per session, preferably one you expect to lose. And then take one game, slow it way down (avidemux and vlc are great), and analyze every pointy, hit by hit, and find your strengths and weaknesses. Don't worry about who you are playing, just play your best, and then watch it later, and try to learn what to do more of, and what to work on improving, and what to avoid trying.

Sorry, I am not coordinated enough to twiddle, except for serving, but I would say if thats what you plan to do in matches, then do it, and make it work. The video will tell you if its improving or a lost cause.

Just my two cents worth....

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

Awesome advice - thanks! Really appreciate it. I might see if I can record one of the matches tonight... it'd be handheld with an iPhone but even that delivers remarkable clarity.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Yes, even recording one set is good. Its not even important to get a whole match.

You want to analyze EVERY hit, so quality of play is much more important than quantity. And video wise, just try to get both players in the picture including feet, and try to stay still with the camera, and that will be plenty good.

You will be amazed at how much you learn about whats working and whats not.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

Well! Match over! And a good first outing for the definitive setup. First - observations on how the PF4/C7 combo plays:

- PF4 is pretty nice for chopping and pushing - good control too, and reasonably slow
- PF4 is excellent for serving - I got a lot of points from serves, both from the serve inducing a fault, and third ball attacks.
- PF4 good for FH attacking when needed
- I twiddled a few times and hit BH shots, but several I misjudged, but once I got the hang of it, hit a few winners this way too.
- C7 is very nice for chopping - very consistent and even and predictable. Nothing fishy - no disturbance and not ever so much reverse but nice control.
- C7 works fine on FH, allowing me to... I can't describe the shot other than to call it a hit... hit (but kinda ease) the ball back or chop back on FH.
- Overall - very satisfied.

Now, the match:

- Match 1: vs chap who came and hit with me on the Dr Evil last week. He was interested to see me not playing with the hardbat. I didn't get a chance to record any of this. On the whole I played well - got plenty back, on FH and BH and played a few decent FH winners, and won a few on serve. I lost in 3, but got to deuce in one, and had a game point.

- Match 2: vs chap I played earlier in the season, and reported earlier in this blog. The chap who has some nasty serves, and basically did nothing much other than move the ball around and won easily. I played much better - much more consistent, got more on the ball, and mixed it up a bit more. I lost in 3, 11-9, 11-5, 11-1. Went to pieces in the last - mentally tired, and discouraged by about 3 lucky shots in a row. after the game he said I played best in the middle, and was making it hard for him. I recorded the first game in this match, so will try to upload it somewhere.

- Match 3: vs pretty aggressive player. I recorded the first two games of this match, both of which I lost 11-7. At first I didn't do a good job of service return, but got the hang of it. Played quite a few third ball winners and FH winners - so played more assertively than usual, and felt I played well. Didn't play so well in the third and lost 11-5.

Overall I was very pleased with my performance, and I'm very much looking forward to getting the videos up for comment. I recorded them on iphone, so I guess I can just upload them via itunes but not sure what to do after that. Will have a look for some guidance, but in the meantime any suggestions most welcome!

Summary: really pleased with the setup. FH is not unlike the 729 I used to have, but perhaps a bit more spinny and a bit slower and definitely better for chopping. BH was solid and reliable. Good stuff.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I have both rubber on preasembled DHS 2003 blade. just take of both of them and put 729 ritc 837 long pips ox.and other side put yin he galaxy mercury2. then you have wollla...its gonna be very good.dont get me wrong i am playing with C7 too. but its good for blocking and push..no spin revers like other long pipses.

Lordcope, how long do you plan to stay with your set up?

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Enjoy the game. It is a never ending learning experience once you play and keep the ball on that 45 sq ft of space or should I say half of that space.

I have to agree C7 is a nice rubber. I used it for quite some time some years ago. I found it great for a BH smash. It played close to an LP for me and I could get decent reversal from it. Probably has to do with difference in blades. One of these days I should stick it on a Gergely and see how it goes. I used to use it on a Hurricane King.

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Yep that's one of the two obvious difference vs the DG or Code. They have lots of spin reversal but a bit less control and less grip/spin capability. I also found I could hit more reliably with the C7 - so it's all a trade. I've won lots of cheap points with spin reversal, but above a certain level it becomes a double edged sword.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Minimum 1 year. So all of the summer season and all of the winter season. You all stand as my witnesses!

During that time I'm planning to record myself when I can, post progress, and work on improving with a solid foundation. Then we can work out what if any changes are needed.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Tuesday practice...

Very busy at the club today, so mostly played doubles, but did get a chance to hit with the number one player. Found I was better able to chop his loops with PF4 - just seemed a bit slower and spinnier. I found an effective approach if I had the chance to attack was to hit a FH attack, and then push the return with BH pips, to vary the rhythm and get the opponent out of position. Pretty cool. Also had a go at BH hits with pips, and made a bit of progress.

Doubles was mostly just getting used to how the new setup feels for touch shots, pushes and chops. Also slightly different for serving. Nothing much of note to report.

At the end of the sesison I had a chance to practice with one of the players who's a bit ahead of me. I lost 11-8, 11-6, but played some good shots. Generally I think I need to be a bit more assertive and put him under pressure. If I just push and return he doesn't make enough mistakes. I'm finding this a lot... when I simply wait, and push I tend to err first. If I attack a bit more I provoke more mistakes.

Anyway - allround good session. I'm uploading a video from last night now... so in the next 5-6 hrs I ought to be able to post it.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

I dunno if I agree with that there? You can call them "cheap points" if you like, but when you get 4 or 5 of them in a game vs someone at the 1900 or 2000 USATT level, it can significantly affect the outcome in sets and matches. The less spinny rubbers are equally legal, and if used well can keep working upto at least 2200 that I've seen, especially in combination with spinny rubber on the other side and good playing ability with both.

Yes, its true that its a trade off for some better counter hitting control, but I think you will find it VERY hard to counterhit with it against better players using inverted, anyway (ie you might counterhit, but they eventually win the point because they just CREAM the ball back at you to where you can't get it back on the table), and instead you will need to chop or block or mix things up, or lose too many of the points. That has been my experience with that. I rarely counterhit twice. I am much better off chopping.

If it were me, I would put the DG on the training blade, and give IT a week with PF4 on the other side and doing my best to see if I could figure out ways to USE its abilities and difference in spin to win more points and maybe even a few sets. But hey, its your blog, your blade, and your time... I think you have all the pieces to the puzzle, but maybe just don't have them assembled optimally, yet.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X

Yeah - poor choice of words. Not knocking it at all. What I meant is that I didn't need to exercise any great skill. I just stick the bat in the way, the spin reverses, and they hit it in the net. That's no bad thing! It's just a trade.



Absolutely. It's just a case of learning how to use them, and developing that good playing ability.



Yeah, I don't do this very often anyway.



Sure. I guess my suspicion is that frankly I could pick anything on the other side of the PF4 and learn to use it. I could use the DG or the C7. I ended up with the C7 because I wanted to use the black PF4 rather than the red on the FH as I'd been told the blue sponge / black rubber was slighty better for chopping. I didn't have any OX pips in red, and there was a sheet of red C7 available in OX at the time I bought the PF4.



Heh - I really appreciate the engagement. I think what I want to do is try to be a bit empirical about it. So I'll post some videos of me with the current setup, and subject myself to the humiliation... I mean advice of forum members on how to improve!

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

The colors do seem to affect, but not a big enough effect to worry about as compared to WHICH blade or WHICH rubber or HOW to play. I have a feeling you will find that you do EVEN BETTER with the PF4 / DG combination if you give it the same thought and effort. And if not, you still have the one with PF4 / C7.

There is no need to humiliate here or be humiliated. We are all making many mistakes per game, of many different types. I have come to the conclusion that to win points and sets and matches I need to keep finding ways to get my opponent to make SOME SORT OF MISTAKE, *BEFORE* I do, LOL.

_________________
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---
USATT 1684 left, Lost it all by playing sick and hurt.
No legs left, no more backing up, just smash it!
Blade: TTPiet OFF-/ALL custom
FH: Spinlord Waran Short Pips
BH: Joola Badman Reloaded 0X