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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2013, 01:09 
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I had another session yesterday and being a bit hungover on an early session made it quite obvious that this setup is a lot less forgiving compared to my previous one. Still played pretty okay after stumbling around during the first hour. I think I've played enough now to decide what needs most work to be honest, the main thing is the pushes against backspin. I need to be more active and put a bit more spin on them to prevent a really strong attack before I'm back in position for a chop, I'm just too lazy and comfortable just putting the ball back.

The other main thing is where I have my racket in my ready position between chops. Coming from a pretty offensive game I tend to keep it down at waist/stomache level as if I was preparing to do an attack. This means I will have to raise my racket to shoulder/head level and then perform the chopping motion which takes a lot of extra time and makes it really tough on harder attacks. I need to keep the racket at shoulder level between shots to give myself some more time, this is no rocket science though, just need to bang it into my head.

Chopping needs a bit of work as well, I'm still chopping a lot of balls in the net due to the higher grip, some minor adjustments in angles and this will be fine though. It will still take som time to imprint this in my muscle memory and get it to work when doing a reflex shot though.

Still having loads of fun!

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2013, 04:06 
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auzcar wrote:
I had another session yesterday and being a bit hungover on an early session made it quite obvious that this setup is a lot less forgiving compared to my previous one. Still played pretty okay after stumbling around during the first hour. I think I've played enough now to decide what needs most work to be honest, the main thing is the pushes against backspin. I need to be more active and put a bit more spin on them to prevent a really strong attack before I'm back in position for a chop, I'm just too lazy and comfortable just putting the ball back.

The other main thing is where I have my racket in my ready position between chops. Coming from a pretty offensive game I tend to keep it down at waist/stomache level as if I was preparing to do an attack. This means I will have to raise my racket to shoulder/head level and then perform the chopping motion which takes a lot of extra time and makes it really tough on harder attacks. I need to keep the racket at shoulder level between shots to give myself some more time, this is no rocket science though, just need to bang it into my head.

Chopping needs a bit of work as well, I'm still chopping a lot of balls in the net due to the higher grip, some minor adjustments in angles and this will be fine though. It will still take som time to imprint this in my muscle memory and get it to work when doing a reflex shot though.

Still having loads of fun!


Too many beers??? ;)
I once again must say that pushes is the thing I think improved the most for me when I changed from Joo with Thor's to VKM with Victas >401. With the slower and more controlled setup I could put much more force behind the pushes, keep them lower and place them with more accracy.

Look at Li Qian (Polish-Chinese defender), she holds her bat in front of her cheek before every single shot. That soeeds up your defensive game quite a bit. But it forces your mind into a more defensive mode I think.

Nice to hear you are atill having fun! God Jul (Merry Christmas)!

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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2013, 07:08 
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'' ..the push when I have to run forward is the one that I have most trouble with keeping low enough.''
going down, bending knees more, keeping body and head down , seeing the net on the horizon helps while performing that push..and really cut the ball..

Curl P1r 0.6 is not more forgiving than 1.0 or 1.5, for Curl P1r it's like that, so, thicker sponge of it is even better for pushes too.

SLOW( without getting faster) and without ( killing the ball or ) any mistake, long repetations of same chopping and moving patterns are used for imprinting in muscle memory.
Slow repetation with devotion...keeping on..and all comes itself when necessary..


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PostPosted: 23 Dec 2013, 17:21 
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Def-attack wrote:
Too many beers??? ;)
I once again must say that pushes is the thing I think improved the most for me when I changed from Joo with Thor's to VKM with Victas >401. With the slower and more controlled setup I could put much more force behind the pushes, keep them lower and place them with more accracy


Haha definitely too many to be beneficial at the practice the day after ;) I felt like a king the night before though, I wonder why that is :?:
God Jul to you too!

deva sarjan wrote:
'' ..the push when I have to run forward is the one that I have most trouble with keeping low enough.''
going down, bending knees more, keeping body and head down , seeing the net on the horizon helps while performing that push..and really cut the ball..

Curl P1r 0.6 is not more forgiving than 1.0 or 1.5, for Curl P1r it's like that, so, thicker sponge of it is even better for pushes too.


A thicker sponge would definitely help when performing this particular shot but atm I feel like I want to give the thinner sponge a shot until I've gotten used to the higher grip. Also, in three weeks time I've got 4 or 5 league matches the same weekend and perhaps I'll up the sponge thickness after that. To be honest I actually have more problems on the FH side when it comes to this shot though, probably because the Joo blade has higher speed and shorter dwell time compared to my VKM and my Defplay. This makes me hesitate a bit sometimes and when I get too passive the push goes long or hasn't got enough spin to prevent a really strong attack. Exactly like you suggest I need to get lower as well, definitely something I need to work on in general.

On another note, last season one of the key players in my team was injured during the whole season and since we didn't have any more players in the club that can take matches at Division 2 level we ended up being knocked down to Division 3. Since we had another team in Division 2 last year the plan this year was to put the four best players in that team and win that league as well as putting together a team that could finish 1st or 2nd in Division 3 to give us one team in Division 1 and one team in Division 2 next year. However, the second and third player in my team have now been injured and won't be able to play the 4 or 5 matches coming up which makes it pretty darn impossible for us to finish 1st or 2nd. The team now consists of me and two fourteen year old youngsters, we don't even have a fourth at this moment.

On the upside it looks like I might be playing in the top team next season in Division 1, this would be really fun since I've never played on such a high league level before. This is not in any way set in stone though, just how it looks atm.

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PostPosted: 24 Dec 2013, 08:37 
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using 1.9 red T64 on Joo blade, really taking my time for a fh push with it..I let the ball come to me..let it fall down, sometimes even table and a bit under the table level...no problem... and chopping with a nearly horizontal (open ) blade...let the ball to take its time on the rubber ( it's long on Tenergy)...so, most of the times no need to come close to table...no Rakza experience and I guess a max Rakza on Joo blade is as fast as 1.9 T64 ...


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2013, 00:04 
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Haggisv recently posted a thread about new year resolutions and this got me thinking a bit. I think it would feel great for me to go into the new year with a setup that I decide to not change this season, this would really feel like a new start and I think it would be good for me to be able to set the first real milestone in my journey by nailing down the setup and shift my focus 100% to technique, footwork and strategy.

The P1R I'm using right now is also really worn (probably 3-4 years old) and it's really time to get a new sheet since I've decided to keep playing with that rubber. Since I've felt that it's been no problem controlling this rubber I will take deva sarjans advice and go with the 1mm version right away instead of waiting a couple of months.

On the FH I haven't got along too well with the Rakza, I think it was decent on the Defplay for my previous playstyle but hated it on the VKM and it hasn't done it for me on the Joo either, especially the offense against backspin. That paired with the pushing problems have made me decide to go back to the Tenergy 64. I've always liked this rubber but didn't think it paired too well with the Defplay, I really liked it on the Joo blade though and a couple of years ago I was actually using this combination for about 2 months during the summer break. The reason I didn't stick to it was because the Joo blade really didn't suite my needs at that time.

So to sum it up I've placed an order for a Tenergy 64 1.9mm and a P1r 1mm that will hopefully arrive here just before new years.

That means my new year resolution will be to keep to this new setup and of course my new playstyle until 2015, and hopefully beyond that as well!
Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Tenergy 64 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1mm


EDIT: Failed miserably on that one haha :D

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Last edited by auzcar on 04 Mar 2015, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2013, 17:43 
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I had a really good 3½ hour session yesterday, only doing multiball and drills, my Curl P1r 1mm arrived as early as on Friday which was awesome so I got to play with that as well. I focused 85% of the session on chopping and pushing mixed with the occasional counterloop. I've got to agree with deva sarjan, the 1mm version really isn't harder to control than the 0.5mm version, pushing is obviously easier as well and it's easier to put spin on the first chop. So thank you deva for leading me in that direction!

FH chopping felt pretty darn awesome after perhaps an hour, this is the first session that I'm doing some FH chopping drills so I was a bit surprised that it worked so well. I had some trouble with the slow spinny loops and also when the ball dropped too low. The FH side is a tad too fast to suit me perfectly (still using Rakza 7 max) and I hope that will be better with Tenergy 64 instead, which will hopefully arrive in my mailbox today. I remember having a pretty easy time chopping with the 64 on the Joo blade when I tried it around 3 years ago, however that might be my memory tricking me.

There's a few things I noticed that I need to work on when it comes to my chopping technique, really nothing new but it needs to be banged into my head since I seem to forget a lot of the times. The first thing is that I need a wider stance, this is something that I've always been working on since I'm a very tall guy but I've never gotten to the point where it's a habit. I also find that I want an even wider stance when chopping compared to attacking at the table, I managed to keep that in mind the whole session yesterday and I can really feel that in my groin muscles today (note to self: really need to stretch!).

The second thing is that I need to keep my racket at chest level when I'm in my ready position, this shortens the time it takes for me to do a chop by a very large margin and having more time it's much easier to do a proper chop as well. Really need to bang that into my head.

The last big thing I want to fix with my chopping as fast as possible is that I need too get rid of the extra movements and bad habits I sometimes do when chopping. I need to isolate the forearm movement as much as possible since I tend to swing with the whole arm sometimes when I get a lot of time and my consistency is taking a big hit because of this. There's also some minor things that I sometimes do that's hard to explain in words but it's basically small extra movements that takes up time, it's really not affecting the chopping technique but as I said it takes up time and sometimes makes me late for the chop.

There's a lot to be fixed and I need to put in a lot of training hours before I can feel consistent enough. My plan is to be back at the same level as before the switch by the start of next season so I got about 8-9 months to accomplish that. The next step is to get back at the level I was at my peak 3 years ago and I plan to give that another year, really need to be patient with this and not set goals that's unreachable, I don't wanna loose faith in this decision.

Still having a lot of fun! Over and out.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2013, 18:27 
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auzcar wrote:
There's a few things I noticed that I need to work on when it comes to my chopping technique, really nothing new but it needs to be banged into my head since I seem to forget a lot of the times. The first thing is that I need a wider stance, this is something that I've always been working on since I'm a very tall guy but I've never gotten to the point where it's a habit. I also find that I want an even wider stance when chopping compared to attacking at the table, I managed to keep that in mind the whole session yesterday and I can really feel that in my groin muscles today (note to self: really need to stretch!).


That's interesting. I try to keep a very wide stance - based on the fact that one of the best modern defenders in the UK - Joanna Parker (now Drinkhall) stands very wide indeed. However, I do notice that in Kees' seminal article he says:

Quote:
"Stand in the basic position, feet somewhat apart (about is wide as your hips or even a bit less), your weight equally divided over them, knees slightly bend to make you stand springy, crouching a bit, holding out both your arms crooked (about 90 degrees) in front of you, your bat pointed half upward, half to your opponent. Stand balanced, relaxed, very lightly, ready and eager to move in any direction."


I've always wondered why he recommends a stance with feet so close together?

Quote:
The second thing is that I need to keep my racket at chest level when I'm in my ready position, this shortens the time it takes for me to do a chop by a very large margin and having more time it's much easier to do a proper chop as well. Really need to bang that into my head.


This definitely chimes with me. One of my biggest faults at the moment is that my stroke isn't long enough, so the bat doesn't move fast enough or long enough to put any serious amounts of spin on the ball. In practice last week I made a real effort to lengthen my stroke and put as much spin on the ball as possible - this led to much nastier shots, flatter trajectory, landing deep, with a ton of spin. However, in order to do this I need to have my bat higher in my ready position, and get back to the ready position again quickly.

Great insights - thanks Auzcar!

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2013, 18:54 
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LordCope wrote:
auzcar wrote:
There's a few things I noticed that I need to work on when it comes to my chopping technique, really nothing new but it needs to be banged into my head since I seem to forget a lot of the times. The first thing is that I need a wider stance, this is something that I've always been working on since I'm a very tall guy but I've never gotten to the point where it's a habit. I also find that I want an even wider stance when chopping compared to attacking at the table, I managed to keep that in mind the whole session yesterday and I can really feel that in my groin muscles today (note to self: really need to stretch!).


That's interesting. I try to keep a very wide stance - based on the fact that one of the best modern defenders in the UK - Joanna Parker (now Drinkhall) stands very wide indeed. However, I do notice that in Kees' seminal article he says:

Quote:
"Stand in the basic position, feet somewhat apart (about is wide as your hips or even a bit less), your weight equally divided over them, knees slightly bend to make you stand springy, crouching a bit, holding out both your arms crooked (about 90 degrees) in front of you, your bat pointed half upward, half to your opponent. Stand balanced, relaxed, very lightly, ready and eager to move in any direction."


I've always wondered why he recommends a stance with feet so close together?


Take a look at all the top defenders (all top players really), pretty much everyone have a very wide stance and I have never seen a single top player that have a stance that's more narrow than their hips, it doesn't get you down at the right height and it doesn't aid in good movement and stability. Joo Se Hyuk, Muramatsu, Wang Xi, Choi Deok Hwa, Chen Weixing, Gionis, all these players have stances that are twice as wide as their hips, and I could make that list much much longer.

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PostPosted: 30 Dec 2013, 20:28 
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auzcar wrote:
I've got to agree with deva sarjan, the 1mm version really isn't harder to control than the 0.5mm version, pushing is obviously easier as well

I use the max sponge P1-R at the moment - only because I've gone back to tacky Chinese inverted rubbers and the only pimples I had in red was P1-R 1.4mm.

Now, it's absolutely fair to say that the thicker-sponged variants are actually easier to control than the thinner sponge. Pushing in particular is much easier and you can start to play a few inverted-like strokes (essentially you can play a normal backhand topspin stroke with the thick-sponged P1-R and although it won't put any topspin on the ball it'll go on).

However, there's something key that I really, really miss when playing with the thickest sponge. It's what my coach would call "effect". He finds the 0.5mm P1-R much, much harder to play against than the thicker-sponged variant and to be honest he reads spin better than any player I've played against in my fairly large local league (~300 players). My chops against his spin (he's not the spinniest player in the world) are heavier and when I push with an angled bat against backspin, there's noticeable topspin on the ball - enough for him to make mistakes. When I've used this rubber against other Premier division players, it completely messes with their head. The thicker-sponged variant doesn't.

Saying all of that, I'm going to stick with the thicker-sponged variant for the time being because I need to progress my game without winning so many "pimples points". I need to learn to properly chop and be a bit of a "stonewall". But if you're all about winning, I can nearly guarantee you'll win more points (against the majority of players) with a thin sponge.

auzcar wrote:
and it's easier to put spin on the first chop.

It is. But it's still a long pimple. If an opponent gives you a flat hit to your backhand, there's no way any of the P1-R rubbers can put enough backspin on to force your opponent to "brush up", as I'd call it. Just gotta concentrate on making the return difficult for them - positioning, speed, etc.

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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2014, 06:28 
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I received my Tenergy 64 and had a session yesterday morning, here's a quick update about my findings.

The Tenergy 64 definitely felt more controlled compared to the Rakza. The dwell time is longer and it's not as bouncy as Rakza. Chopping felt better from the first hit, with the Rakza I never felt like I had enough dwell to really control the ball, even though the chop landed and I produced a lot of spin I didn't feel in control. With the 64 I feel like I have a good chance to change the spin and it's a lot easier to keep harder attacks on the table. The same reasons makes it a lot easier to perform pushes as well.

I put a lot of attacks in the net which kinda surrised me a bit since the Tenergy series is known to have high throw, but Rakza is high throw as well and it seems it's even higher than the 64. Just need some time to adapt and I'll be fine.

I need some more sessions to say for sure but I actually think that I should've gone with the 2.1mm instead of the 1.9mm, not that the 1.9mm felt bad but I think the thicker version would give me more when it comes to attacking whilst not taking too much control away in my defence. Oh well, time will tell.

Happy new year guys!

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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2014, 09:23 
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Impressive that T64 is working well for chopping... I would have thought it would not be easy to control.

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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2014, 20:07 
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haggisv wrote:
Impressive that T64 is working well for chopping... I would have thought it would not be easy to control.


I still wouldn't say it's an easy rubber to chop with, it's made for attacking and that's where it shines but it's definitely more controlled than Rakza. I'm used to very fast and bouncy FH rubbers as well so that might also add to the feeling of control when compared to my previous rubbers.

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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2014, 21:47 
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Just came back from an early session and this was the first time I really got a taste of how unforgiving this setup is. Being hungover I overslept and didn't eat aything before the practice, so as you might understand my energy was pretty much at 0%. Chops was flying high and I was late to pretty much every stroke, not only the chops, but the attacks as well. To add to the despair I was playing against two very very good players and the whole session was pretty much like a big fat punch in the face. I spent two hours being trashed which didn't feel very good to say the least.

The reasons is however quite apparent and didn't give me any doubt in this style and setup, which felt nice since I've been afraid of this first really bad session giving me doubts.

I have another early session tomorrow, I'll report back after that.

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PostPosted: 04 Jan 2014, 00:55 
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I know it's obvious, and we all say: 'anyone can have a bad session', and of course in your case it was worsened by obvious factors, but I just want to say how reassuring it is to hear other people report having had a crap session at which they were trounced. It's just good to not feel alone.

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