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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 14:31 
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So yeah, right, you lost a lot of points and are just one point below your all time high - how did that happen? :D:D:D:D:D


Congrats and hope that makes you feel better at least.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2017, 23:33 
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NextLevel wrote:
So yeah, right, you lost a lot of points and are just one point below your all time high - how did that happen? :D:D:D:D:D


Congrats and hope that makes you feel better at least.

:D :D
Yeah, I saw that yesterday. All of the "underrated juniors" evidently were very underrated and were adjusted to 17-1800. And of the juniors I beat, they were still adjusted to 17-1800 as well. Therefore... had I not lost to that low-level chopper, I would be closer to 1700 myself.

Still, I was not happy with how I played that tournament illness or not. And I don't have time.... so. I dunno. Sucks.

My lower back has not recovered. I exacerbated it doing the stupidest most benign thing imaginable. I was using a footpump to blow up a basketball. I was layed up the next day. That was 5 days ago, and I'm still hurting. Could barely pickup balls this Sunday, and had to do the rude kick the ball to the other guy thing (with explanation of course).

I may need a long break after this Saturday's league match.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 01:00 
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As with any hobby, if I feel like I’m not having fun, stagnant, or regressing, I tend to want to change something. I tend to go through a molting phase around the new year where I want to shed my old skin and start fresh in some way. I do this professionally and in life in as well. So…here I go…yet again!

Full disclosure: I have to admit something, I have grown bored with chopping and defense lately.

Don’t mistake this for depression, I’m not down, I’m just in a phase where I need to infuse something into this sport. I also have the challenge of time. If you’ve read any of my recent posts, I have some family health challenges that really impedes on my TT time. As a result, I have really been trying a zen approach to this hobby. Reflecting on what I want to get out of this sport.

First, and foremost, it must be fun. TT is something I do to get away from it all; to forget about problems and stress. If it ceases to be fun, then it will likely be something I won’t want to continue. Lately, defense has become less “fun” for me, and I can’t explain why.

Second, usually TT is a meditative experience for me. It centers me. If anyone is into mindfulness meditation, I liken my mindset and focus to how I get when I meditate. This carries over to other facets in your life, and is of great benefit. But lately that has flickered on and off for me, and I haven’t been able to focus on the moment.

Third, I can’t get too concerned with level, and rating, and improving. Given my time restraints, if I place all my eggs in the improvement basket, I will likely become disenchanted. That being said, I still must have an upward trend in level, but I cannot use conventional measuring sticks to determine improvement. Especially ratings.

So, based on that criteria, I have decided to forgo defense for a short while…just as I have in the past. I’ll probably be right back on the horse chopping in a few months, especially if I’m playing for something that matters (Team league or tourney), but for now I will be concentrating on playing in a different way.

Therefore, this is what styles I’ve been toying with:

Jpen
I first gravitated back to my Jpen blade, and it has been great fun. I love Jpen, and I love the style. My Japanese mother played that way, and that’s how I played growing up and when I came back to TT 4 years ago. Back then, I had a 5 ply TSP, the old Birmingham77 model. My mom played with a single ply hinoki, although I didn’t know it at the time. So there is great nostalgia for me, regarding this tyle. However, I quickly became enamored with chopping and changed to a shakehand chopper with long pips. Since then I haven’t really played Jpen except to goof around.
Because of my TT “Reset”, I have lately been playing Jpen a lot. Let me tell you, I am SO BAD at jpen. Probably somewhere between 1100-1300. Played a league with it and split games with a basement player (Although that basement seemiller player DID take second in the league). All of that muscle memory has been lost, but it has been coming back to me little by little. I forgot about TPB smashes, and sidespin blocks, timing, etc. I also forgot how closed the racket feels to achieve the same trajectory on either wing. My forehand is far better however, and that came back to me instantly (as noted by my training partner). I largely suspect my bad Shakehand forehand is largely due to some wired-in muscle memory after having played penhold so long, with which the forehand was/is far more intuitive for me. My BH block was way better back in the day, and that is coming back a bit but this is why I play at such a low level with this style.
One bummer about Jpen is that nobody around here plays it. There are no coaches anywhere. That being said, I have befriended someone on FB, a higher level player from Chile who I would estimate to be 2400ish. He has been kind of virtually coaching me and giving me tips online sharing videos and doing some demonstrations on technique and strategy. So there is some support there, albeit very little.
PROS: Nostalgia, Cultural ties to the style, Most fun to play, Least common style, far better forehand, best pendulum serves.
CONS: Currently worst level, least support or coaching, TPB is hard, footwork intensive and might be harder the older I get, everyone telling me TPB Jpen is a dead style.


Shakehand Short Pips
I have also been playing shakehand with double inverted and short pips.
The short pips experiment is not going well. I am just not dialing in those strokes. My intent was to play with them on the FH after experiencing the wrath of a 11 year old junior who had them on her forehand. Forehand shortpips has been a disaster. I guess since my Shakehand forehand is weaker than my backhand, I felt like that was the logical place to try them. I am far more attuned to SPs on the backhand, so have been playing with them in that position. I estimate I am at a 1400-1450 level with this style. The advantage here is I would have no TBP to deal with. I also have the benefit of some other SP backhand players at the club…all of them do well. At NOVATTC, the owners daughter (2088) and the manager (1980) both play BH SPs. Also, the best SP layer there is Hiep Tran around 2200 as high as 2294 in the past. So, for that style there are people to reference and learn from. Also, the head coach and owner is well-attuned to coaching is daughter with that style. The bad thing is, my weak forehand is still there, and I would need to really work on that. I have been trying to do that for 4 years…with coaching. Still isn’t good. I estimate I’m around 1300 solidly with this style, having never been coached.
PROS: Least amount of footwork, less common style, probably best style for aging players, and lots of support and coaching potential.
CONS: Weak SH forehand is still an issue, pip prejudice.


Last, and certainly not least, double inverted shakehand.
I know what most of OOAK is thinking “booooooo….borrring.” But as an alternative style to LP chopping, I play double inverted at the highest level…around 1400 …maybe 1500 if I get the right opponents. I have tried out switching to this in the past, and did okay, without any coaching. Fairly intuitive. Forehand did improve but still an issue. Strangely, my backhand is my best shot using shakehand. When I toyed with double inverted in the past, I tended to be allround, still chopped a lot, fished and lobbed a lot, and even learned to do a BH flick pretty well. Not much to say here except while there is great potential, I would be just like everyone else style-wise, which is good and bad. There is great simplicity in this style. And given the lack of time to train or get coaching, this is probably the most logical road to improving level, but again, that’s not my main motivator. But of course, as you all know, coaches and support galore….there is help everywhere.
PROS: Less footwork, good style for aging players, highest current playing level of 3 styles, lots of coaching and support
CONS: Weak SH forehand is still an issue, not really unique


With all 3 of these styles what I lack is serve return experience on the backhand (no pips anymore), attacker-oriented servers (all my serves are geared toward defense), and a general lack of tactics for attacking. I’d be returning to basics so that’s not a bad thing. Of course, I can train things to improve all of these weaknesses, and continue to try to improve my shakehand forehand.

And every time I’ve done this in the past, I’ve gotten something out of it when I returned to defense (if I return). I remember in the past chatting with Bogeyhunter about footwork and said when he trained Jpen that was when he got his biggest gains in that regard. So_Devo told me his switch to SPs really improved his inverted backhand when he switched back. So, there is evidence of something to be gained by changing things up.

Wish me luck, interested to hear your thoughts. Likely I’ll revert back to chopping in 3 months when I am satisfied I have fully molted. But no promises.

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Last edited by Japsican on 29 Dec 2017, 01:52, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 01:09 
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May be you could also try close to the table LP play, be it pushblocking or chop-blocking? I actually think of exploring it as my 'B' game, to give opponents something else to worry about...

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 01:24 
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pgpg wrote:
May be you could also try close to the table LP play, be it pushblocking or chop-blocking? I actually think of exploring it as my 'B' game, to give opponents something else to worry about...

I do that now as a chopper, and incorporate lots of that. I actually tried the style in the beginning because most people didn't allow me to chop below 1400. It was effective, but I didn't really like that style. If I looked like Robert Shanazari or John Wetzler doing it, maybe I'd re-consider. :lol: They are amazing.

I think I wan't something that doesn't involve long pips for a while. Maybe I discover a love for a new style and change permanently. Maybe doing this forces me to somehow improve my forehand and inverted serve return when I go back to defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 01:31 
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Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
May be you could also try close to the table LP play, be it pushblocking or chop-blocking? I actually think of exploring it as my 'B' game, to give opponents something else to worry about...

I do that now as a chopper, and incorporate lots of that. I actually tried the style in the beginning because most people didn't allow me to chop below 1400. It was effective, but I didn't really like that style. If I looked like Robert Shanazari or John Wetzler doing it, maybe I'd re-consider. :lol: They are amazing.

I think I wan't something that doesn't involve long pips for a while. Maybe I discover a love for a new style and change permanently. Maybe doing this forces me to somehow improve my forehand and inverted serve return when I go back to defense.


It probably will do that, especially serve receive, and likely FH as well - I suspect you'll have more traditional rallies on FH, but who knows.

The reason I think of it as a 'B' game - if you are close to the table, either by choice or mistake, then chopping is pretty much no longer an option. So, might as well be there on purpose for a change of pace and to put extra pressure on the opponent, or if chopping does not work, to give them different balls/less time. Works some time, as a change-up strategy...

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 29 Dec 2017, 01:46 
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pgpg wrote:
It probably will do that, especially serve receive, and likely FH as well - I suspect you'll have more traditional rallies on FH, but who knows.

The reason I think of it as a 'B' game - if you are close to the table, either by choice or mistake, then chopping is pretty much no longer an option. So, might as well be there on purpose for a change of pace and to put extra pressure on the opponent, or if chopping does not work, to give them different balls/less time. Works some time, as a change-up strategy...

Yeah, as Gman can attest, I have been chop blocking and push blocking more. Sometimes I go into a match with it as my "A" game, and I almost always play a mixed pushblock/chopblock/chopping game...probably 15/15/70. I think my at-the-table chop block is my best stroke with LPs, but hard to do against certain caliber of players. It's how I almost beat Heip in our last league meetup.

The good thing about double inverted too, I can still chop on both wings if the need arises, and I can revert to my best Aida/Telnoy impression. But I think I want to attack more.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 05:24 
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pgpg wrote:
Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
May be you could also try close to the table LP play, be it pushblocking or chop-blocking? I actually think of exploring it as my 'B' game, to give opponents something else to worry about...

I do that now as a chopper, and incorporate lots of that. I actually tried the style in the beginning because most people didn't allow me to chop below 1400. It was effective, but I didn't really like that style. If I looked like Robert Shanazari or John Wetzler doing it, maybe I'd re-consider. :lol: They are amazing.

I think I wan't something that doesn't involve long pips for a while. Maybe I discover a love for a new style and change permanently. Maybe doing this forces me to somehow improve my forehand and inverted serve return when I go back to defense.


It probably will do that, especially serve receive, and likely FH as well - I suspect you'll have more traditional rallies on FH, but who knows.

The reason I think of it as a 'B' game - if you are close to the table, either by choice or mistake, then chopping is pretty much no longer an option. So, might as well be there on purpose for a change of pace and to put extra pressure on the opponent, or if chopping does not work, to give them different balls/less time. Works some time, as a change-up strategy...


So between Jpen forcing me to concentrate on my FH and attacking, and your suggestion of exploring a chop blocking game, those 2 things came together this weekend. I had a Team League matchup this weekend and because of a bad back I had it in my head I was not going to leave the table, and I was going to attack more. This lead me to a more Chop blocking/inverted attack style of play. Worked well, I beat a guy a usually lose to when chopping, and I beat a push blocker (penhold). You may recall my history is that I never beat pushblockers. I beat him in 5 (and deuce) and it was my best match I've played (IMO) in several months...I wish I had recorded it. the chop block IMO is my best stroke, when it lands, so you might be onto something. I'm still thinking about going with the double inverted or SP/Inverted style, but this Liu Song forehand-dominated chop block on the LPs style is definitely worth exploring. Maybe I should just ask you what I should do moving forward...hahaha

Although, I'm not sure the defplay is the best blade for that style...

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 09 Jan 2018, 07:26 
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Japsican wrote:
...

So between Jpen forcing me to concentrate on my FH and attacking, and your suggestion of exploring a chop blocking game, those 2 things came together this weekend. I had a Team League matchup this weekend and because of a bad back I had it in my head I was not going to leave the table, and I was going to attack more. This lead me to a more Chop blocking/inverted attack style of play. Worked well, I beat a guy a usually lose to when chopping, and I beat a push blocker (penhold). You may recall my history is that I never beat pushblockers. I beat him in 5 (and deuce) and it was my best match I've played (IMO) in several months...I wish I had recorded it. the chop block IMO is my best stroke, when it lands, so you might be onto something. I'm still thinking about going with the double inverted or SP/Inverted style, but this Liu Song forehand-dominated chop block on the LPs style is definitely worth exploring. Maybe I should just ask you what I should do moving forward...hahaha

Although, I'm not sure the defplay is the best blade for that style...


Heh, this opens up great possibilities for me messing up Japsican's TT life: "I think you would benefit from a switch to hardbat, or even better to sandpaper!" (please don't...). Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode where one of Elaine's friends decided to follow her life advice for some reason and ended up in the Navy? :rofl:

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 00:07 
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pgpg wrote:
Heh, this opens up great possibilities for me messing up Japsican's TT life: "I think you would benefit from a switch to hardbat, or even better to sandpaper!" (please don't...). Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode where one of Elaine's friends decided to follow her life advice for some reason and ended up in the Navy? :rofl:

Hahaha, yest that's a great episode.

Sir-Yes Sir! So Sandpaper!? Do I get a Valor hardbat blade for that? Where do I get sandpaper from? Is it standard sandpaper that one purchases at home depot? or do I have to by approved sandpaper? I think this will be very fruitful. :devil:

Yeah, I am still looking for an attack-based game regardless of the type of rubber I ultimate end up with on the backhand. I feel I am least effective or familiar with SPs on the backhand. That would be a bigger learning curve than just doing straight inverted I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 00:13 
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I know this is littered all over the site, but I'm lazy. The Defplay isn't the best chop blocker blade, and I hear balsa isn't as viable any more because people seem to be gravitating to standard woods often with carbon. Also, I have hated balsa in the past (too light). Any thoughts on a blade that chop blocks and has some braking capabilities on the backhand? Probably doesn't exist.

NSD comes to mind. (Mr. Variatio) Seems unwieldy and large.
Trinity Carbon comes to mind. (HaggisV?)
Maybe even the Joo? (Oh no!) Liu Song used this last I checked.

But I haven't really researched chop blocking/attacking as a style nor the equipment that might be appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 01:18 
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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 01:32 
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GMan4911 wrote:

The Aurora is a combo blade so yes, but it is balsa (yuck). I rememberI heard good things about the OSP OX Blade and looked hard at it. Didn't know they had a new version, so might be worth looking at. But that sure seems expensive.

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 02:28 
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Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
Heh, this opens up great possibilities for me messing up Japsican's TT life: "I think you would benefit from a switch to hardbat, or even better to sandpaper!" (please don't...). Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode where one of Elaine's friends decided to follow her life advice for some reason and ended up in the Navy? :rofl:

Hahaha, yest that's a great episode.

Sir-Yes Sir! So Sandpaper!? Do I get a Valor hardbat blade for that? Where do I get sandpaper from? Is it standard sandpaper that one purchases at home depot? or do I have to by approved sandpaper? I think this will be very fruitful. :devil:

Yeah, I am still looking for an attack-based game regardless of the type of rubber I ultimate end up with on the backhand. I feel I am least effective or familiar with SPs on the backhand. That would be a bigger learning curve than just doing straight inverted I believe.


I think colestt.com has sandpaper thing on his frontpage. Blue one. I tried Valor hardbat once from a clubmate and it is really nice (I think it was American Chopper or Classic, not sure now) - very different from Toxic 3 hardbat I also have.

As far as Defplay usability for chop-blocking: I did try it (in practice) few months back with Dornenglanz and I thought it was quite effective. May be copy Shahnazari's setup - I suspect this style requires faster blade with OX to maximize reversal, but I have no game experience to back this up :^)

And also, may be you should try anti (I'm tempted myself, just for experience)... :devil:

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 Post subject: Re: Holy Chtchet!
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2018, 02:45 
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pgpg wrote:
Japsican wrote:
pgpg wrote:
Heh, this opens up great possibilities for me messing up Japsican's TT life: "I think you would benefit from a switch to hardbat, or even better to sandpaper!" (please don't...). Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode where one of Elaine's friends decided to follow her life advice for some reason and ended up in the Navy? :rofl:

Hahaha, yest that's a great episode.

Sir-Yes Sir! So Sandpaper!? Do I get a Valor hardbat blade for that? Where do I get sandpaper from? Is it standard sandpaper that one purchases at home depot? or do I have to by approved sandpaper? I think this will be very fruitful. :devil:

Yeah, I am still looking for an attack-based game regardless of the type of rubber I ultimate end up with on the backhand. I feel I am least effective or familiar with SPs on the backhand. That would be a bigger learning curve than just doing straight inverted I believe.


I think colestt.com has sandpaper thing on his frontpage. Blue one. I tried Valor hardbat once from a clubmate and it is really nice (I think it was American Chopper or Classic, not sure now) - very different from Toxic 3 hardbat I also have.

As far as Defplay usability for chop-blocking: I did try it (in practice) few months back with Dornenglanz and I thought it was quite effective. May be copy Shahnazari's setup - I suspect this style requires faster blade with OX to maximize reversal, but I have no game experience to back this up :^)

And also, may be you should try anti (I'm tempted myself, just for experience)... :devil:


I did try anti and that was a disaster. I hated it...i'm positive it's a fine rubber type and I would have adjusted to it given more time, but I really hated it. Plus the constant worry about cleaning/polishing and ruining the rubber by bending it...it's even more annoying than managing OX pips.

You are right, all of the chop blockers have faster setups. I tried Dtecs on a Joo blade a while ago but never really practiced the strokes with it. I bet that would be descent (and Liu Song uses it) but he doesn't use the LPs as much as I would.

As for Shahnazari's blade, I don't think anyone knows what he uses anymore since going to bomb talent ox. His old setup according to MNNB was Halmark Original on a Tibhar Defense.

All of this makes me think I should just play double inverted. :?: Hahah

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Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions


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