OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Lol. My login times out so it maybe posting but not letting me know it has posted.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

That was me who's bat he tried. After reading some folks experiences with defenderS on here, I decided to try it in 2.1 and 1.9. Seems fine for my level, plenty of control and spin in short game, and encourages me to be active in my shots.

If you watch Telnoy's BH chop, he really dips his shoulder and takes the ball in front of his body. And his stroke is smaller, compared to say Chtchet. Which make sense given he doesn't have pips.

His form is really pretty to watch...smooth.

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

More videos from the god of table tennis...my man Chtchetinine.

I bet this guy would be fun to have drinks with.
Semifinal Vs. Kuzmin



Final vs.Shetty. Chtchet vs. Shetty

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

I noticed that when someone loops into his body, he chops it back while being square to the table with a forward 'jab', if it makes sense. As opposed to moving and doing a more traditional chop on either side.

I think there is an unspoken message here for older aspiring choppers with less than perfect footwork...

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Haha, yep indeed. This was something i posted back in the day somewhere, because this was one of my biggest problems. I've since figured that one out copying Chtchet, but it's far from perfect. He also thrusts his hips back to give himself some room on those, to get more vertical angle on the jab. If he can, he also seems to stroke downward as much as possible. Looks awkward, but it seems to work.

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

You are very close to the truth here - it should've been spelled Shetinin (Щетинин) or close to that in the first place

Noticed that his pushes are very 'jabby' too, at least the ones where ball is in front of his body. I typically bend my wrist and push with horizontal blade - may be I should try this too.

P.S. Did they break 3 balls in Game 2 of his match against Kuzmin? Must've been alpha version of plastic ball...

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

I am going to have some cross-post plagiarism here with another post I made with Debater, so forgive any of the duplicative statements as I’m not creative enough or patient enough to say the same stuff twice.

Saturday for the team league I played with LPs, and did my usual stuff. I have been playing with double-inverted for the last month, but was still a little too unconfident in my serve return ability to switch for team league; after all I would have to answer to my teammates as to why I suddenly played with a different setup in case I lost.
We lost a very close matchup...3-3 going in to the doubles tie-breaker. In the doubles we were up 2 games and then lost 3 close games afterwards to lose the match. I was frustrated, because in the doubles I felt so impotent....always chopping, cannot really affect the spin like I want. I don’t feel that way with inverted of course, but the I also at times miss the control LPs afford. We actually played quite well, my teammate and I since we had never played doubles together before. He plays off the table as do I so we were running in to each other a bit and I think our opponents capitalized on that at times. Still, the whole affair was a great start, and I’m proud of my team.

The team situation makes it more difficult for me to fully commit to double inverted, but I think I’m going to take the leap. I’m the weakest player on the team anyway, but I can steal a match vs. a 1800 level player chopping with LPs so that gives us a ratings advantage. But with double inverted, if I can get past the serve return, I am far more consistent.

For fun after the match, I asked to play my doubles partner with double-inverted. I had not warmed up my BH using inverted, so not really ready, and had been playing LPs all night. But still pleased as to how competitive I am.
First game, I lost to him 0-3 but all were close (8, 14, 11). Close. Then in the second match, I lost again, but this time at 2-3. Games were (11, -8, -8, 10, 5). You can see I fell apart in the last game, I blame this on another player entering over the barrier behind me as I was dropping back to retrieve and thus tweaked my ankle and knee.. So, as someone who has never played double inverted shakehand before, but for short bits of time this year, I did okay, and probably play around 1500 and can swing 100 points in each direction depending on the matchup.
The thing I notice playing inverted defense is:

Serves:
I tend to lose to weird servers who use a lot of sidespin serves, LPs masked this deficiency for me. I tend to win vs. conventional servers who rely on deception and alternate between under, light under, dead, and top...but all of the spin is horizontal.

Attacking:
I attack way more, and I am psychologically looking for it. I don't get bogged down in sticking with BH LP strokes because it's safe. I also take more chances, I'm more active. I flick far more and attack more serves.

Blocking:
Because I'm at the table more, I tend to be in position to do more strategic blocking and some drop shots.

Chopping:
Good: Particularly off serve, my chops/pushes don't get killed as often...even when too high. There is far more spin, far fewer dead or slight underpsin balls. Therefore my returns are more difficult. The first chop gets far more points, the second chop is about the same, 3rd and beyond far more dangerous with LPs if the attacker will continue to topspin.
Bad: vs. very spinny players (more spin than pace) I tend to chop those high with inverted. Technique yes. My solution is to counter topsin those back, or fish.

Finally, at the end of the day, I have far more energy left. Fewer calories with double inverted...for me. I have not been running around quite as much. Also, I have a better % versus soft players (My Achilles heel!). With LPs I just cannot handle them. With double inverted I attack them or force spin on the ball which they cannot be as passive with.

Am I a better player? No, not yet. But I also haven't really trained it seriously, or received coaching on it yet.

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

I actually find that more people are thrown off by serve receive with LP push/chop with an uncertain spin returned to them. They think it has more backspin than what's there (probably confused by aggressive push motion) and typically loop them off the table. And I'm talking about 1900+ players.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Interesting read, Japsican. However, don't you think they are going to play in another way against you when chopping with double inverted, one that is effective against a double inverted chopper? And do you not think your percentage and quality in shots is going to go down, even after a lot of training?

I do miss that part of the deception. What I have experienced is that my opponents who are over 1800 adjust to this after a game or so and then end up attacking them effectively. Der_Echte is a perfect example. He strongly loops any of those no matter the height and lands almost all of them...even at the beginning of the match.

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

Of course they will and have. When I speak to this, I am talking about people who have experience vs. inverted choppers and LP choppers alike. The difference is, the amount of attacking opportunities I have. I am far more likely to attack with this style, for whatever reason. Also, I like having more control over the spin on the serve return.

But to answer the bold/underlined part above: No, why would the percentage go down? If they develop better strategy, I would just need to practice vs. those strategies...just like I would with LPs. The same argument applies both ways. People develop strategies against any material used, smooth/LP or otherwise.


Is it better? I know there really is no such thing as "better."
Am I having more fun right now? Right now, yes. But I can get bored with anything, so I might get bored with this.
Am I better? No, not yet. But again, I haven't trained it at all really. Just played for fun really.
Am I switching from LPs? Not yet, maybe never.

I have an obligation to my team to play the style I normally play...with LPs because I think over-all I'm more effective. I don't want my boredom to affect my effectiveness for the TEAM.

My main setup with P-1R will always be in my bag ready to go.

As an aside, I DO find that I am benefiting from time off with the LPs as usual. And the added benefit of being able to better handle "Soft" and "Spinless" players is nice.

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

So you like the higher amount of attacking opportunities? Wouldn't it be better then to slap two inverted on your paddle like you're doing now and create a more allround style, not a defensive one? At the level you're at, you should develop your defense first and think about attacking opportunities later on the road.



It's not the opponent's strategy that will lower your percentage, but the speed and the spin when going higher that'll lower your percentage. The first because it requires better positioning all the time when defending with inverted, the second because you need to compensate for the incoming spin.



What causes that boredom? Because that's a character trait that can get you in the EJ (style) spiral forever or even make you quit the sport. Besides playing with LP when getting bored quite quickly is not a good idea: it takes a lot of dedication in good and bad days.

Well, I had no idea that I did, until I tried this. And if the style evolves then so be it. If it doesn't, then so be it. Sports are a gradient, fluid, dynamic for most people. Many people do not find that they enjoy something (style change/position change) until they try it out for a while. Look at sports...how many famous footballers (Soccer) started as Forwards and change to Stoppers, and visa versa. Happens all of the time. In american football, many guys change from offense to defense and then change positions on the field. Some people are better suited to certain styles.

Now, I'm by no means saying that's the case for me, but if I don't experience it, I'll never know. Just like the guys above. I don't think it's natural to be that rigid about what one should or shouldn't do.


Interesting how opinions vary on this. Regardless, the bulk of my time is/was spent practicing defense.

But, isn't that statement true for anyone and any style or equipment? That the higher you go the harder it is to win? I don't get your point here. Sure, LPs will make it so that I can "CHOP" speed or spin with more control, but what are the downsides to that? There are some...and many players have learned to deal with this no matter their style...(Telnoy, Aida, Jo Parker). Take Jo Parker vs Ding Ning for example, I can tell you I would struggle vs. Ding Ning with any LPs!


A lot of things: too much, repetition, monotony. The enjoyment of something new. But i hear you....it could be that it's not suited to my personality. I've always thought of myself as someone who could just be patient and not care about things like expedite (LOL). But I think in the end it's that I am enjoy a new thing, which is natural. Again, nothing is set in stone, I love classic D....still love it more than attacking. But who knows... I'm not one to be pigeon-holed in any one thing. I'm okay with where it leads me. Might even be away from TT, but I seriously doubt it.

I bet that if you asked most of our regulars here if they've tried changing styles or actually DID change styles, I would bet the majority would say yes, so I suspect I'm in great company.
I changed from JPEN to SH chopping with LPs.
Der Echte, tried LPs for a while.
Bogeyhunter switched to Jpen for a while
So_Devo changed to a SP backhand for a year or so.
Auzcar is auzcar
Hookshot changed grips...seemiller grip to SH (and I think back)
NextLevel said himeself that it's quite useful to try other styles if for nothing else but to gain insite in to how to play them. I think he's tried LPs and SPs both.
DefAttack swtiched from double inverted (I think) to LPs, pushblocking, LP chopping, to SP chopping, to anti-pushblocking/attacking.

Heck, i bet it's the majority of people on OOAK...and if I reach their level I'd be pretty happy.

_________________
Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

I think it's worthwhile experimenting in styles and equipment in this game. It not only gives you insight into what works and what doesn't, it broadens technique and can spice up the interest level. There's a lot to be said for sticking with one thing and building consistency with it too, but I think a period of diversion can be beneficial overall. Its all TT after all, and everything that expands knowledge contributes something to your game, whether it be going deeper or wider.

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