OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Not counting patting the ball back and forth as a kid, I've played about 50 hours of table tennis MAX to this point. I suck. I'm better than the average person off the street, obviously, and I can beat some guys who have been playing for years but who seem to be grown-up versions of people who pat the ball across the net…

I decided it was something I wanted to pursue, to get better. I've spent quite a bit more time reading stuff (in formulating a plan) than practicing to this point, but that will change quite a bit around mid-February. I have an Amicus Pro arriving then, and I'll get a bit more serious about it.

By "serious" I don't mean 20+ hours per week. Golf will remain my true passion and the way in which I earn my living (through about five or six different avenues in golf… fingers in many pies ). I mean 5 some week, 15 some others. I hope to average about 10, but it will be a lot of dedicated practice.

I have a PingSkills yearly membership and my current plan is to follow their 52-week training plan. I practice well at golf, and have no problems hitting shots slowly, worrying about hitting the table ALL the time over having the correct form, and so on. I feel my background in golf will help me with TT in terms of knowing how to practice effectively.

Samson Dubina is two hours away. He charges $65/hour. Some Chinese woman locally charges $30/hour. Sam, who runs Erie TTC, is an 1800 but is older, and was higher in earlier years. I'll likely spend some time working with Sam, may try the Chinese woman to see how that goes, and may even make the trip to Akron once in awhile. I have no problem paying for good instruction, as… that's what I ask of my students, obviously.

It's a bit of a weird time to start this journal, because I'm heading to the PGA Merchandise Show, am back for a few days next week, and then head to Florida for some PGA stuff for a week. But, I'll be back around early February, and the Amicus (Tom Servo, I've named it) is not expected to ship before February 20th.

I plan to film myself practicing, playing occasional matches, etc. I do not plan to do ALL of my training on a robot, but I plan to use it heavily at first so that I can get basic footwork and stroke mechanics down. As my training partner and I get better, we'll probably make more use of multi-ball and/or blocking while the other loops (or whatever).

I wanted to start this little blog, so I could get the ball rolling.

No responses necessary, but any will always be appreciated. In the future, I mean… I don't expect anyone to have anything to say about THIS post.

P.S. I have no real goals. I enjoy learning and trying new things. I don't do anything half-assed, so I've set up a 40' x 20' room for TT, got Tom Servo coming, etc. If pressured my goal would simply be to "get as good as I can get." If that's 1400, cool. I hope it's higher, but… I won't be disappointed if it's not. It's about the journey, not the destination.

_________________
Erik J. Barzeski
Newb in Erie, PA

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Good on you for starting a blog iacas
Hopefully we can offer you some handy tips along the way.

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I worked with a Chinese woman at tonight's ErieTTC session from 9-10. Just forehand, topspin, counter-hit type stuff. Basic motion type stuff.

What I need to do, briefly:

• Get lower (bend knees, hips forward).
• Wrist uncocked - I tend to get the handle too vertical, needs to stay horizontal. Tip of paddle can be slightly upward with forearm for these little counterblocks.
• Small arm motion from the wrist, which follows.
• Hips rotate slightly following arm motion.
• Grip loose - thumb presses near impact, pinkie and ring finger grip paddle, index finger doesn't slide up onto backhand side.

On shots into the body, pivot the body (weight onto left knee/foot if necessary) and really focus on keeping the tip of the paddle down a bit.

The language barrier turned an A lesson into a B. Some things took a bit too long to "get across" and sometimes I'd have a mini revelation that I couldn't communicate quickly and be confident I was understood.

By the end of the hour the ball was starting to be a blur and I was getting a bit loopy. I talked with her about the arrival of the robot and how I wanted to work hard with the robot but do so properly, when it arrived. She agreed she could help with that quite a bit.

Cool. I feel it was a good first session.

_________________
Erik J. Barzeski
Newb in Erie, PA

Tibhar TEXO All | 1.8 999 Juic Elite x 2
Ross Leidy ALL Blades (x2) | 1.8BH/2.0FH Juic 999 Elite
Butterfly Amicus Pro

Erie TTC • Erie TTC Facebook
TST • GE • 5SK • LSW

Good posts, look forward to hearing you journey.

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Thanks.

I don't know if I said it before, but I hope to be getting into this early enough that I don't have a lot of bad habits to break. I have some - I'm nearly 37 and have played table tennis in my life for 50 hours or so now, but it should be easier to break 50 hours of habits than even five months of habits.

The coach complimented me on my ability to track the ball. So that was good.

_________________
Erik J. Barzeski
Newb in Erie, PA

Tibhar TEXO All | 1.8 999 Juic Elite x 2
Ross Leidy ALL Blades (x2) | 1.8BH/2.0FH Juic 999 Elite
Butterfly Amicus Pro

Erie TTC • Erie TTC Facebook
TST • GE • 5SK • LSW

One thing I've noticed about golf instruction is there appears to be a meticulous focus on minor details of swing mechanics, which would be a mistake if improving quickly at TT is your goal.

The two lowest hanging pieces of fruit in TT are:

1. Understanding how spin works and how to handle it, which opens the path to an easy yet effective short game. Without this basic knowledge, beginners can't figure out what to do, and become dependent on rote instruction and practice which is difficult to apply in such a dynamic game. Aka the Knowing.

2. Learning body & surrounding awareness. This is going to be much easier for someone competent at other sports because you know what effective motion feels like and how it correlates to what's going on, though I guess with golf there's no opponent moving the ball around. If you know to brush under the ball quickly from #1, there's a subsequent athletic intuition to implementing that intent. Aka the Doing.

What they have in common is turning the sport into a problem solving exercise instead of memorizing all the different ways to turn the crank. There's also simply too many varying situations in TT to learn efficiently by drilling every one. Instead, with a problem solving approach, practice naturally turns into a laboratory to effectively resolve each real subsequent challenge you face; akin to taking a shortcut through a massive field of effort.

Good luck.

Improving quickly is not my goal. Improving properly is my goal.


I understand it perfectly well from a "knowledge" standpoint. From an "athletic" standpoint, that will take some time to handle it properly.


I agree.


Yes, but of course, it's still important to have the proper technical skills and a solid foundation.

_________________
Erik J. Barzeski
Newb in Erie, PA

Tibhar TEXO All | 1.8 999 Juic Elite x 2
Ross Leidy ALL Blades (x2) | 1.8BH/2.0FH Juic 999 Elite
Butterfly Amicus Pro

Erie TTC • Erie TTC Facebook
TST • GE • 5SK • LSW

Looks like you're on the right track. You already have pingskills - I would have recommended ttedge.com as well - I have pingskills videos, but not the site membership. What I will say is that they are both Australian and that Brett Clarke, who has now joined ttedge.com, and Alois Rosario, the main coach/teacher at pingskills.com, are good friends (more than that, but I don't know all the details).

Would definitely like to see your progress since I am yet to see adults benefit from taking purely traditional coaching as the primary route to improvement after getting to a certain level of competence. But right now, what you need are the basic strokes at a consistent level, and your coach seems to be giving you that. It's hard to do it any other way.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

> Improving quickly is not my goal. Improving properly is my goal.

The two are functionally equivalent unless you have enormous ambitions over very prolonged periods.

> I understand it perfectly well from a "knowledge" standpoint. From an "athletic" standpoint, that will take some time to handle it properly.

Understanding spin is non-trivial. Most players at less than quite high levels make significant errors.

I think part of the problem here is underestimating how difficult TT is. Consider playing a real match with fairly middling ~1500 level player (perhaps one who's fairly static to avoid any "athletic" disadvantage) and see how many points you can reliably get. Most such players have already been at it a while.

Just like Golf, TT isn't an easy sport to start and make a high level right away.

The fundamentals of stance, balance, movement, hitting inside the zone, are things that take equally as long to develop as the strokes themselves and they are inter-related.

Stay with it and the coaching, it will get better with time. Sometimes, you actually drop in match performance despite having improved something(s) in training significantly. That is just how it goes. Fight on dude.

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I'm going to mix up some of the stuff from PingSkills that align with what I learn (or am currently working on) from my coach.


I plan to film things fairly often. Not just for the feedback here (I'll mostly look to do it to document things, not to get a bunch of feedback, though I imagine I'll occasionally learn something I'll take back to my coach).


If you think they're equivalent then you don't know what I meant when I said what I said. There are shortcuts to improve at almost any sport quickly, but they may not be right. I have the dedication and patience and knowledge to take things slowly, do them properly, and the results will come eventually.


They make the "athletic" or "functional" mistake. Every high-level player can tell you what you're supposed to do.


I don't know what I've said that you have taken to mean I think I'm underestimating it. I'm not. Please stop assuming things I've not said or implied.

_________________
Erik J. Barzeski
Newb in Erie, PA

Tibhar TEXO All | 1.8 999 Juic Elite x 2
Ross Leidy ALL Blades (x2) | 1.8BH/2.0FH Juic 999 Elite
Butterfly Amicus Pro

Erie TTC • Erie TTC Facebook
TST • GE • 5SK • LSW

When you have a coach you trust and who you are sure is invested in your improvement, it makes the most sense to listen to him or her almost exclusively and ignore what anyone else says, since they don't spend anything close to as much time as your coach will working with you but often want credit where they have not really invested the time. They may also interfere with what your coach is teaching you. Usually take advice on things you are NOT working on with your coach. Philosophies are different in this sport. Or let your coach hear what someone else said and get her take. It's the main reason why I avoid posting videos online asking for advice (and you seem to have experience with this based on some things you have written when I read between the lines).

Again, you are on the tight track. I expect that your empirical approach will bring you success and you will address the issue that AgentHex raised about spin at some point. But Rome was nor built in a day or an eternity. You have time to address all that even if not as quickly as some may desire.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Brett has a new short video out drawing analogies between the forehand swing and the golf swing - hope you don't fall out of love after watching him swing .

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

> If you think they're equivalent then you don't know what I meant when I said what I said. There are shortcuts to improve at almost any sport quickly, but they may not be right. I have the dedication and patience and knowledge to take things slowly, do them properly, and the results will come eventually.

I know you're saying and I reiterate that the two are the same in this context. Understanding spin and body awareness are not "shortcuts", but rather the exact opposite.


> They make the "athletic" or "functional" mistake. Every high-level player can tell you what you're supposed to do.

Take however difficult you believe reading/using spin to be right now and multiply it by about ten to get a realistic picture. If you can read spin perfectly, it's possible play at a good level using only very simply passive strokes.

You're now conflating two issues. The "shortcut" stuff was not related to the spin stuff.

READING and PLAYING the spin is the athletic component. The knowledge component is easy.

I assure you, I'm aware of how difficult table tennis can be.

_________________
Erik J. Barzeski
Newb in Erie, PA

Tibhar TEXO All | 1.8 999 Juic Elite x 2
Ross Leidy ALL Blades (x2) | 1.8BH/2.0FH Juic 999 Elite
Butterfly Amicus Pro

Erie TTC • Erie TTC Facebook
TST • GE • 5SK • LSW