OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I looked through more of the sessions and I noticed that I managed to post the worst one - LOL. My luck...

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Good arm "whip" on the second video. Stroke looks relaxed, loose, good speed. Kind of wish you were ending with the blade between eyes, but you were consistent.

Thanks. When I tried that or at least finishing the ball on the same side of the body as my stroke, I felt I was lifting the ball off the table. Any hints to help avoid crossing the body without putting too much lift into the shot? I simply kept my swing largely on the same plane while trying to finish higher. Maybe the blade angle should be more closed while I maintain the same swing trajectory? Feels a little less natural to me, though I do it in other contexts.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I see you doing your stroke with the body mostly stable and not involved in the impact, mostly swinging the entire arm on the shoulder joint and using forearm snap (maybe a little wrist, dont see much).

That might get it done in hte practice drill, but if you have to move around and play at combat speed even 2-3 levels below your level, that FH stroke is gunna lose you a lot of points under pressure and when it does land, it has a good chance of coming back.

I know you got KNEE problems and that affects using your legs/waist portion body to generate the initial momentum for the whipping action... and that you must find a different way to get the FH topsin job done.

Since swinging the entire arm pivoting on the shoulder is a LONG stroke, I would sugggest for you to consider using that way to compensate only from mid distance of further.

You like to play closer to the table and that stroke takes too long to be useful in a rally with any pace close to the table.

I would ask you to consider developing a "close to the table" forehand topsin that uses less of the body, less of the upper arm swinging on the shoulder joint... and focused more on using forearm snap... use a TINY LITTLE body or upper arm (like you are already doing and comfy with) and stabalize the elbow keeping it halfway close to your body and pivot forward on the elbow joint.

This uses the elbow as a lever and pivot point. It is a very direct and compact stroke easy to understand with fewer "moving part", provides quicker recovery, less issue with off balance or overpower balance/recover issue, and has high consistency. There is not a ton of topspin with this stroke unles you engage more body in the impact and your condition is not condusive to this, so I ask you to consider using this close to the table counter stroke to make your topspin, you can get more spin from your impact.

Imagine that you are right handed and hold your elbow in place with your left hand to prevent it from going forward in the stroke, only allowing the forearm to pivot forward. This is the stroke, after you have used your step or a little upper arm or however you can keep balance and start the inertia.

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Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

Thanks, Der Echte.

Breaking 2000 allowed me the time and comfort to experiment with my game, so I am trying a few things. What I have found is that my strokes are usually much shorter in matches than they are in practice, but that the swing trajectories and blade angles tend to transfer over. Mentally, I am also much more of a precision player - I find that on both sides, especially my backhand side, it's not how hard I hit the ball but where I hit the ball at and to that matters. I just can't loop to the wide forehand in a loop vs. block drill (I can do it in multiball or in a match simulation or third ball).

I don't think I am anywhere close to the finished product which will likely be much closer to what you are suggesting and it's what I do in matches anyway. But it pays to try things and see how far I can go so that I don't have to reinvent the wheel. The biggest pain point for me has been the ball change, as I can't optimize my strokes to match one new ball without being severely pressured when the ball changes to a lower bouncing one, and unfortunately, the lower bouncing ones are the dearest and crappiest.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I actually figured out how to do the finish shorter and on the same side of the body. It's still a bigger stoke that Der Echte might like, but I actually like the spin and speed it provides even more. Unfortunately, I didn't tape myself yesterday. But I will put in some work today.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Dont get me wrong about the stroke length, it is not suddenly like Der_Echte has become a mainstream pundit.

If you see me in action, you might see my FH topspin swing and scream Long Stroke Bloody Murder.

That is my swing when I have time. when I am under pressure on either wing and close to the table, there isnt time for that kind of swing.

Anything you can do to get that stroke into action quickly on balance with the degree of spin and power you want with teh ability to recover on balance ready again is a good thing and it isnt my place to disparage such a thing, that is efficiency and as Kim ung Hoon says in his vids, there isnt a "right" answer in TT and Andro says there are many possible effective FH topspins.

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Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

Der Echte,

Far from it - you are making an observation that others have made and will probably make as well, and you are bringing your nuanced view and recommendation to it. You've seen and been around a lot of high level TT so I am not going to pretend that I know more about the game than you do.

As someone who stopped swinging from the shoulder when I was 1200 to avoid pain, if someone had told me that it was possible to swing from the shoulder and not get injured, I would never have believed it. But I am learning, from my serve drills to even my latest efforts that relaxed effort goes a long way, and that the desire to play pro-level speed shots in early stages of TT learning does hurt people's growth and progress in TT. Hopefully, serve practice can be one effective way of getting them to realize the power of relaxed effort.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I actually figured out how to do the finish shorter and on the same side of the body. It's still a bigger stoke that Der Echte might like, but I actually like the spin and speed it provides even more. Unfortunately, I didn't tape myself yesterday. But I will put in some work today.[/quote]

I do agree w BH man on a short stroke being helpful. That is one thing I need to relearn/learn on my FH soon.

I'll post a video tonight with a shorter stroke so you can see that the stroke is essentially the same, but the takeback is much shorter. There are benefits to practicing with the larger stroke as they simulate when you have the most time, but the shorter stroke will be largely similar.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

That's due to the spin buildup after the first few loops where the ball starts kicking at you. The beauty of single ball training! To keep it from shooting long, you want to adjust the upward motion to more forward. There'll be enough spin to keep the ball going.

Compare the swing and finish positions of your forehand loop and backhand loop motion.

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BTY Viscaria - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g

It was even on the first loop. I fixed it by making the swings on both sides more similar and closing the blade more to start on the forehand side. I wish I taped some of my matches yesterday.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

From 13 mins to the end. The same side of the body loop is mostly between 23 to 27 mins in, with issues and all. I keep forgetting to make recovery a focus. But I did try to shorten my stroke a little this time to make it more in line with what I would use in an actual match even if slightly bigger. Still largely spin oriented. I hurt my knees at a tournament this weekend so I decided to mostly focus on easy movements in and out nothing lateral as that is what kills me (twisting my knee would be horrible). Still need to add quick recovery.



In some ways, it is a regression, but in some ways, I like the consistency. I will post a couple of things with backspin tomorrow unless the injury makes that impossible, in which case, till when I heal. But no competitive TT in the month of March until I do heal. Will definitely do quick recovery tomorrow.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Hi next level, you are a much better player than me so don't want to comment too much but i think a good example of your lack of recovery is when around that 23 minute mark, when starting a new rally, look how long you keep the bat in the finish position. Looks like you are waiting for opponent to hit as part of your rhythm. Might be a good place to start practicing the recovery and breaking the habit of timing your backswing with the opponents shot.
Another thing i thought i noticed on previous vids was what appeared to be a shallow backswing more around the body than down toward the leg however in this vid is quite obvious you are swinging from low to high which perhaps it was just camera angle before or maybe a didn't shot.
Enjoying reading your blog as I've all the same issues plus many more so feel free to dismiss my comments as I'm no expert but if you can take something from them then that's great.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Both you and cobalt acknowledge the issue of your recovery. Check out what happens even when you serve, your bat unnecessarily stays forwards for quite a long time.

Its hard to comment confidently on other areas because one is unsure exactly how much your knees limit what you can and cannot do. Whilst your general fh swing is pretty good (especially your follow-thru) somehow you need to get more zing. Due to the fact that you can't use your legs and torso as much as others you may actually need a bigger backswing as Cobalt suggests. Check out Ma Wenge's forehand loop - there might be something there which works for you.

I will be interested to view your upcoming loop v backspin clip.