OOAK Table Tennis Forum

My blocker (Randy) retired from tournament table tennis in 1995, but has returned for practice and exercise at the moment - he used to be a fierce 2000+ looper and was one of the few people who in club matches could beat the US over 60 champion at that time, Bill Sharpe, who was LP BH, SP FH with an extremely consistent game (with a week to live with terminal cancer, he beat Barney Reed who was almost 2500, for people who want to know how good Bill was).

IT's my first transition drill so I try not to over do it. I used to do these a lot when I was 1400-1500 but lack of practice partners and a focus on other things let them fall to the wayside. In some moments, I incorporate quicker recovery, but I don't do it consistently throughout the drill.

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One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

As some have pointed out (Roy especially, and Brett elsewhere), looping is not the only stroke on the forehand that is required to score points - hitting and blocking are important. I am rebuilding my forehand, not just my forehand loop (I probably will rebuild a little of everything except my forehand chop, which is non-existent).

What I find interesting is that I tend to hit/block relatively well during matches, but my warmup forehand/block on my forehand side is a wierd topspin oriented animal that goes upwards. In this practice video, I try to fix it and fix some aspects a little (using the body and not just the arm) but didn't realize until seeing it that my racket was still finishing a bit too upward. Will work on staying more level in my next session.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

NextLevel,

These are the best basic forehands I've seen you play. If you can take a little bit more topspin off the ball, it will help other aspects of your game eg blocking. But if this is the final product, it's good enough.

When you are totally happy with your shot, start aiming at a small spot on your opponent's side of the table instead of thinking about your technique when drilling forehand to forehand. See where your ball lands in relation to this spot/target. It will put your focus back on the ball, where it should be.

Great thread btw and respect for having the guts to put yourself out there like this again

Cheers,
Brett

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And your forehand topspin in this video from 4:26 is super. Your legs could be a little wider and bent (I know). I got William to watch this video today to show him your progress and he was very happy for you.

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Thanks again for the kind words, Brett.

In fact, while I didn't do any camera work today and don't expect to play significantly this week, I did see that my blocking conistency in practice drills greatly improved and the looper said as much as he was stuck trying to make 20 loops in a row very often. I still lost most of the consistency battles, but they went on much longer and I actually won a few good ones despite the looper's attempts to use sidespin to end the rally which was how he won them (maybe I should do this more too - LOL). Blocking sidespin has never been easy for me.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

NextLevel,

When you block, you often have your bat head up too much. It's a problem on a number of levels. Here are some:
- you will often take the ball too early
- you won't learn the optimal subtle wrist movements involved
- it's harder to control the bat angle
- it's require a different start to the hit and topspin resulting in a loss of time

No one likes blocking sidespin and counter topspinning is general a better option, if you are capable.

Cheers,
Brett

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Hmmm... Bat head up too much... Gotta watch myself more...

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

My first thoughts are that this is not going to be a trivial change... But we will see. I know a lot of decent players who( I think) block that way and preach that, though frankly, I don't block as well as any of them.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I did some drills but I am going to feel weird on my backhand for a while as I figure out what grip to use to keep the blade head lower while blocking. I will probably do some more work tomorrow but I don't think I have any really good BH hitting footage today.

What I did do was try some speed drills (finally, carbonman!). Again, my camera died while practicing the first set so I lost what would have been good footage. So I did one last drill.

One of the things I found interesting which is not on any of the footage was that I was able to counterloop at the table once I used Larry's picture of going round the center of a pole to faciliate the stroke (and of course, early takeback per carbonman so that I was in looping mode and not just hitting/blocking mode). It hurt me that I didn't get that on tape so I could see what it looked like. But this speed drill was interesting enough. In real time, I thought my takeback was much shorter than the video displayed and IMO, this will largely be my finished forehand product more than some of the larger arm strokes I used in the past. But of course, who knows what the future holds...



My coach blocks a little faster than this so at some point I will have to do the drill with him.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I got some new advice (I'm a pretty sensitive guy so I hate public criticism) that I still finish below my eyes too often and this is not the optimal swing trajectory for the standard forehand loop when everything is good.

So me being the evil debater I am, I went back and watched my first video which I posted with Diwakar. I do not have Diwakar's fitness level but I have always thought that while he lacked strategic guile (he beat me more from familiarity than really picking at my weaknesses IMO), his game was largely fundamentally sound as a result of coaching in younger years. And make no mistake about it, virtually all his loops finish above the eyes. And in my mind, he almost never gives the ball loft (which I like to do in my head at least), so it isn't a spin vs. drive thing like I like to deceive myself.

So I am going back to the lab to fix that stroke trajectory and finish. Make sure that it is impervious to speed drill pressures. Aim for a spot on the table. And then go kick some butt before I can kick no more...

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Over time, I have optimized my game to go to the backhand of a right handed player on almost all shots. I have been trying to break the pattern recently but until today, I never fully realized the source of my trouble. I just realized it is largely my elbow positioning - I keep my elbow too close to my body, which favors down the line forehands and crosscourt backhands. It became clearer to me when I tried to implement the advice of consistently finishing high on the forehand on cross court shots - I had to get my elbow out and it made playing backhands the way I had gotten used to playing them uncomfortable, especially the backhand counterhit/block without raising the racket head up.

My conclusion: I can't just rebuild my forehand. All my major strokes are in for rebuilding. That said, there was a time when I played my backhand without having my elbow tucked in so all I have to do is bring it back to life. The biggest benefit of this IMO, probably even bigger than a better FH is to be able to go down the line with my BH again as well as play the forehand in general.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

NextLevel, I only watched video 2 and it looked great. Be careful not to compromise on your forehand topspin, just because you know the next ball is going to your backhand. Hold the bat over the eyes/head for a small amount of time to make sure the bat went in the "right" direction. Don't just circle around to your backhand making your forehand too shallow. Most of the time you didn't compromise, but you did sometimes.

Cheers, Bret

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NextLevel, I just watch this. Seriously good stuff. Your basics were great, but your forehand topspin from 28:25 or so actually surprised me. It was crisp with flawless arm mechanics.

I hope you never remove any of your old videos from your channel. Together, your videos are evidence that a guy who starts late can totally transform his technique if he really wants to.

Keep posting your training,

Cheers, Brett

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Thanks for the compliments, encouragement and advice, Brett. It's being really helpful and it has also helped me see how misguided one can be in thinking about what is important and what is not in a stroke.

So in terms of applying to matches - is it mostly a matter of keep the same stroke but read the incoming spin? Or are there other strokes and finishing positions I have to learn?

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yesterday (Wednesday) night at the club, I didn't plan to go but my hitting partner said he was coming so I went anyway to practice. People actually stared at me looping and some were giving me their thumbs-up. But I didn't have a camera so I could only imagine what they were seeing. In general, my speed drill looping has gotten reasonably good. I can make 7 to 8 shots in a row without much trouble in good moments - I guess it will get better as I get more consistent and my blocker does as well. I played a match and struggled a little to change pace from what I was doing in the drills to match play pace but I switched my game style to flat hitting and eked out the win.

Today (Thursday), I brought my camera in and got to see what other people were seeing. I wish my arm/elbow was out a little bit more, but even with that, I impressed my self.



I played Hayat and beat him 2 to 1 in matches - less important than the scoreline for me was how I felt looping chop. It just felt easier. I feel that with practice, that is going to get better. There are a couple of points in the Hayat match where I flicked but rather than flick the ball with my flat form, I used my mind to picture how my loop would look like if it was an over the table shot. And I flicked in that form rather than loop the ball. Good results even if not technically correct or I didn't really spin the ball. My flat hitting bad habits vs. high balls cost me the 3rd match as did some bad blocking but all in all, the forehand block won me as many points as the forehand loop.



We'll see how the rest of March goes, but I am pretty pumped right now.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus