OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Glad you played. Sometimes the best tournaments follow some of your worst training (and vice versa).

Congrats, pgpg!

Even more than you actually playing and winning, I respect your entering your own event even though you were only 20 pts below the cutoff - you were likely one of if not the top seed and you defended your rating successfully.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Thanks for kind words, everyone!

I think I originally wrote that U2050 would be a 'character building' event, but in fact it's the other two where I had something on the line (rating, that is). In fact I did not play anyone above me in U1450 (not a surprise, I was a top seed there) and U1750 - luck of the draw, I guess - not a lot of players in 1450-1750 range. So, it's 'your' event where you have to defend your rating, as NL said, is the toughest one. In the end I think I'll drop a few points because of one 'bad' loss in U1750 QF, but to be honest I don't care that much. I suspect playing in a weekly league helped to accept that rating is going to change and it will not always go up .

I'm going to focus on serves and FH next - the former I can practice at home and the latter needs few fixes to be more consistent and dangerous. After my last game my opponent told me that my FH improved a lot, but my kill shots were too predictable (always cross-court) and lacked spin. Need to learn how to go down the line or more into the body during the game.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

You've written some very wise words that it took me a long time to learn - playing a large weekly league did the same for me as well but in a different way. A couple of things that I will add that I hope will resonate with you over time if not immediately.

1. 'Bad' losses are never bad if you feel you played well and your opponent out played you, no matter what her rating was. Sometimes, you may even play "well", but the way your opponent outplays you reveals a flaw in your game that needs to be addressed to protect yourself from bad losses and to improve your consistency. Such losses have taught me to address a service return weakness, or to be more aggressive on service return, or to learn to accept the consequences of attacking and missing, or to impose my game on lower rated opponents from the start etc. What is not so obvious at the below 1800 level is that a lot of mistakes are almost 100% a result of significant technical deficiencies (actually, it's true at every level, but I am just massaging my ego), though people like to think they "choke" etc. True "choking" IMO is missing a shot you make 80% of the time in practice, and you will be hard pressed to find people doing that when they say they choked.

2. Whenever you practice third ball, always practice hitting the ball to at least two different spots on the table. It's a good habit with significant payoffs and rewards you faster the earlier you start doing it. The first point is your preferred point. The second is your freeze point. Try to use the same backswing and foot position to hit the preferred point and the freeze point. I call it a freeze point because it is designed to make your opponent freeze. The freeze point is usually down the line and it doesn't require as much power as a cross court shot (usually requires more spin, however). Ultimately, being able to hit the freeze point enables you to loop/hit much more slowly to any point on the table as the freeze point freezes the opponent as they cannot guess where you are going until the ball is moving if you don't telegraph your stroke too much.

In table tennis, there is always a reward to having more than one option out of similar starting positions. The sooner one figures out how to produce this, the better. If you don't have a major traditional serve, since you use pips, I would recommend starting with the backspin-no spin combo. It is the beginning of serve deception and IMO, the one that fools juniors more than side-topspin vs. side-backspin reads.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Played in our Tuesday league last night and went 3:1 - feels like it's been a while I had a winning record there . 2 wins came against players rated above me: the guy I seem to play every league night (and neither of us can put a winning streak together) and a penhold hitter who owned me in the last few regular club matches. This one I had to scratch out, pretty much being behind all the time and somehow running away with the 5th game.

The loss was against the guy ~two levels above me, and even though it went 5 games, it was mostly due to him trying out new serves and taking it easy enough.

Few things I noticed:

- FH is definitely an issue, still missing easy shots (Edit: although I am sure footwork should share plenty of blame too). It did feel like I had correct stroke a few times, unless it's an illusion.
- Because of the above, attacking every ball might not be a good idea. I actually thought that I was more conservative last night, going for a safe push here and there. Perhaps it helped.
- Used backspin serve more to see if home practice helped. I'm pretty sure it would count more as a 'no spin' one, but few times my opponents netted it, so there must have been at least some spin there.
- Tried BH serve and twiddle afterwards, with mixed success - not fast enough and getting caught with an awkward grip for 3rd ball is not good.
- Had trouble receiving spinny tomahawk serve with my BH - he does have a good serve, but LP usually helped here, not in this case.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

which of the two set-ups did you use? The aggressive one or the defensive one?

Right, I keep forgetting that part - last 2-3 weeks it was 'aggressive' one 100%, on the theory that since I don't seem to chop on FH anyway right now, might as well use normal looping blade/rubber. Trying to stick with it for a bit.

I also did put Big Dipper on my FH ~2 weeks ago, to replace Mars II I had there before. I am not sure I can pinpoint any significant differences it might have caused.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

The reason I ask is that (and maybe you covered it) is that when I have tried more aggressive blades that the problem for me is not the FH (which like you is mostly aggressive) it is the ability to play defence on my BH that has always hurt me.

I don't have an opinion about that yet. If anything, I think that my BH chops and blocks are more likely to go into the net with 'aggressive' setup (thinner sponge?), but I don't have hard data.

Overall, I don't get to chop much on BH in a match - perhaps I should stop using it in the warmup, since I think it scares folks away, even some of the better ones

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

in warm up just before match u should not use it for some reasons:
-opponent will better read spin (he will read amount of spin reversed, ur ability to vary the spin)
usually i get easy first set cause opponenet dont know exacly what and amount of spin is coming
-sometimes oppenents do not check enemy's equipment (which is mistake, eg. easier to read better what spin is coming when i see LP sponge or OX)
when u train (not before match with opponent) in the day of tournament, u should train with ur friend

about sponge thickenss.. i played today in tournament vs 2nd league player (i lost 3:0)
not for my bad chopping but cause he was more consinstans with his fh atttack than my fh
anyway... look... we arent in top100, we dont have same consistance and spin amount (technique) as players in that top100
so we really dont need higher than 0.5mm sponge (even Masato Shiono WR46 is playing with 0.5, and i think Kōji Matsushita played with 0.6mm)
for us control and consistance is the most important (that's why after today's tournement i'm changing my p1r from 1.0mm to 0.5mm)

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Butterfly Defence II / Victas Curl P1V 0.5mm / Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.0mm -185g

I understand what you are saying about warmup approach, but, truth be told, I played all of these people before and they know my equipment and level pretty well, so I'd rather warm up with the strokes I'm going to be using in the match.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Business travel and social obligations took priority for the last ~10 days, so no TT play there. But, after I got back home on Friday, I managed to go to the club three days in a row, mostly trying to burn off all the extra calories I consumed on the road.

Few notes below:

* I did practice some serves and mirror strokes while stuck in a hotel. These seem to help - opponents dumped several backspin serves in the net and I caught myself noticing that my finish position on FH appears to be more correct, and I think FH consistency went up somewhat.

* Made an effort to keep my elbow further away from the body - and I think it helped (I know, no video, so could be an illusion)

* Discovered that hitting underspin with LP on BH is quite doable, and I even was able to vary placement/direction. Practiced it for a bit with a couple of partners.

* Tried to focus on putting away easy balls in practice and matches. Even succeeded in going down the line few times.

* SInce I was there 3 days in a row, I got to play few folks multiple times - and it was rather random. Lost to one guy (who made a lot of progress recently) in 5 (after being ahead 2:0 ) yesterday, and beat him handily today 3:0.

Finally, latest tournament results were processed and I only dropped 2 points - apparently my 'bad loss' was not so bad, the guy had higher rating than I remembered was printed on a match slip. Playing unsanctioned tourney on May 3rd (counts for Ratings Central), we'll see what happens there.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

League play tonight produced 3:1 record and it was mostly a 'rating defense' adventure. I did beat everyone below me - some of opponents are quite underrated by now, but they'll have to get their rating points elsewhere .

Despite the record I was not too happy - things I thought I improved/learned over the weekend sort of went out of the window the moment matches started : hitting with LPs, keeping elbow away from the body, finishing position, staying low etc. Not really a surprise in retrospect - not enough time to reprogram the muscle memory. On a positive side, I did not give up when things looked dire: 0:2 in games, 6:10 in the 3rd and still managed to scratch out a win in 5. Yes, luck played a role too, but I'll take that.

One observation from the loss: once the guy lost the first game and figured out he's dealing with LPs, he started serving no spin to my BH and I had no answer for it tonight. Should I develop good attacking shot with LP, twiddle to inverted (tried, but without much success), or try to step around and engage FH? All of the above, perhaps?

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

About the last question - be sure to have at least three options and vary what you do to not make your opponent sure what to expect. A loose return with pips short to opponents FH can be effective on some serves (if they aren't too fast). Occasional attacks are good, look at the vid of Chen W doing fast block-attacks with pips, very effective. Try to twiddle and loop back with FH (take a chance and twiddle before he serves). And of course, chop deep to BH, cross over point or far FH. It must be low and deep. You can also chop with inverted sometimes, that will sure make your opponents confused .

Edit: I meant twiddle and loop back with INVERTED, not FH...

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

I gavr this response to z

I gave this response to Japsican or someone else and for some reason I thought I had given it to you. The key when returning a no spin ball with pips is placement and height. The rules for placement are simple - short, deep or wide. The rules for height are usually simple (low) but at our level is opponent dependent - some people miss high no spin balls, some miss low ones, so you have to take risks sometimes.

Avoid the middle of the table unless you are going to the elbow or very deep because that goes into their stroke. If th serve is long, deep backhand is usually the best placement if you cannot attack but it is a difficult placement. Short forehand is best for short serves unless your opponent has a good forehand flick, and deep backhand is usually good as well.

Just learn to place the serve with a slicing motion to the areas I recommended. The goal is not to win the point but to make the attacker work. Good luck.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus