OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I can pick up quite literally any bat and play to a reasonable level in practice. I would say 75% as good as my best form with my usual setup. That includes SPs, MPs, anti and penhold with RPB. I find all of them quite natural thanks to playing LP/inverted and twiddling for the majority of my table tennis "career".

However, if I picked up any of those setups in a matchplay environment, I'd be lucky to be 25% as good. I know that because I did it for the handicap cup last year, switching between inverted/SPs and penhold grips depending upon my opponents - my handicap was a bit screwed up because of how quickly I progressed; I essentially had a division 3 handicap when I was near 100% win ratio in division 2. I can still serve, but I really really struggle with serve receive. I often make mistakes blocking, too. I guess that's what you would consider "touch" or "feel" shots. I basically get scared of any level of spin because the way LPs deal with heavy spin is very different to the way other rubbers do.

Even having used the setup for some time in practice, I still find myself tense when using it in matchplay. In previous summer seasons I've switched to SPs, mostly to convince myself that I can still receive serve with "normal" rubbers. The first 3 or 4 league matches are always horrendous because under pressure the equipment feels entirely abnormal. After that though, when I've played with the setup in a few league matches, it starts to feel more normal.

The one setup I can always pick up and play with well in a match is my current JSH/any inverted rubber/Curl P1-R LPs. Probably because it's the setup I've used in the highest majority of my league matches.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Dunc, I agree with you to an extent but with me it can be particular shots that go well in practice rather than setups. I tend to forget about the bat in the match and get on with it. Backhand loop is probably the best example of this, I can get it going pretty well in practice but it just ain't reliable in matches.

Back to match report, 2nd v 3rd. Because of playing order I ducked their #1 and played their #3 first who I generally beat but have lost to (once) before. This was a very routine win, helped in no small part by having a lot of nets and edges. These things happen I guess but it was rather a lot! - to the extent that I felt a bit bad and switched off completely and nearly lost the 3rd end before winning a great point to close out the end and match 11-5, 11-2, 11-9.

My singles against the good server was a game I was really looking forward to. Like me he has SP on backhand, and blocks very well with them, occasionally hitting. They are just support to a good variety of pendulum serves, typically deep into backhand, following up with big forehands. The short version is that I really concentrated on the serves and got low - for the 45 yr old me. Any backspin or float got driven back to backhand, top got chopped deep to backhand. Later in the game I varied the placement of returns more as he tried even harder to 'run around'. I made very few mistakes and this got me into points enough and from there I could more than match him. Again I switched off in end 3, this time trying a few extravagant shots, but closed out 11-8,11-5,11-9 to go to 17/17 with Spectol.

We got one more singles and one of the three doubles to lose 5-4, and stay in 3rd, three points behind with a match in hand. It is a point per game (9 per match) so not too bad, although our run in is a little tougher.

Overall I am very pleased with where I am with the SPs. Short game and control is fairly secure especially considering the short time I have used it. I am serving pretty well and the hitting is generally good if I don't get too carried away. Occasionally muscle memory kicks in and I hit a howler (eg trying a traditional backhand brush loop). But on the whole it is progressing well and, more importantly, I am enjoying my TT with new skills and techniques to try to master. Also, I can see so much potential with things I daren't try yet; twiddling for example.

Another sound practice session yesterday and a match tonight in a different league, that we have probably won; we need a maximum a 6-4 loss (4 points) to be sure in this last game of the season, possibly less if the team in second doesn't secure maximums in its last couple of games (they have had postponements). There is one excellent player in the team we play tonight who I have only beaten once in about 10 matches, as he is ex-top 20 UK. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

I was just about to ask if you've had any real challenges yet. Sounds like you're about to face one!

Let us know how you get on

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I have a few good games coming up in the next 4 weeks, including an inter-league competition where top players from the counties' leagues play each other. We are in the top division of that. Also I have a league cup final to play. So there will be a good few 'validation points'! Last year I won 5/8 in the inter-league singles.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Well, we secured the league title with a 5-5 draw. This is a 3 vs 3 league, 3 singles each and one doubles. One of my teammates had quite an off-night and lost all 3, and at one point we were 4-2 down and fretting a little. The ex-top 20 UK player got his hattrick and my other teammate - who was playing his last ever match - and I got 2 each and the doubles.

My teammate is a class player; was a top junior in his country and still plays to an incredible standard considering he never practices and is approaching 50. He lost 11-9 in the 5th to their best player. Unfortunately knee issues have forced him to call it a day. So I suppose he is now my ex-teammate.

For my part I lost in 4 to their best player, and played pretty well. I generally lose to him, took the first end tonight and I'm sure he would admit from that point on he got an awful lot of luck! Karma coming back and biting me after my last match! But overall more than happy. Pips were certainly not a weakness. I got through the the other games in fairly routine fashion.

Onwards and upwards!

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Two good standard matches to report on this week. On Sunday I played in our county's inter-league competition, veterans' division 1. We played just one match and won it 7-2. The format is 3 players playing 2 singles and 2 doubles each = 9 games. Players are ranked, and in singles #1 plays the opposing 1+2, #2 v 1+3, #3 v 2+3. I am ranked #1 for our team. What is nice about these matches is that you get to play players that you don't regularly play. As you are not familiar with them it is also difficult to judge if you have had a good win, an expected win, and expected loss or a bad loss!. So I have (retrospectively) looked at our national vets rankings to get an idea.

Rounded to the nearest 10th place I am 290th nationally, their #1 is 220th. I lost this one in 5 sets after going 2 down. His blocking was exceptional, everything came back so quickly and in horrible places (out wide or in the body) I just never seemed to be in position. I altered my approach in games 3 & 4 by loading the loops with more spin and less speed and won them narrowly. However in the 5th he came out a lot more aggressively and got a decisive lead and won that end easily. I also lost to their #2 who I couldn't spot in the ranking lists, maybe he isn't a tournament player. He was all out attack and I lost in three all 11-9, frustrating especially as I suffered some nets and edges at key times.

We were however outrageously good in doubles (even if I say so myself) and won them all in 3. My teammates (both inverted/dtecs players) converted their singles for a great result. I was happy with the was I played and on another day it could have been 2 wins for me too.

Last night I played a local league match against a top side. Their national vets rankings are 70, 210, 310. The player that is 70th is the same I referred to who beat me in my post of 28/4 in a different league. This league format is 3v3, singles only. I had a really good night, and won all 3. Given I had never beaten #70 in a competitive match before (got him in 3 tonight) and am about 50/50 with #210 (in 4 tonight) it is a real boost to the pips decision only about 6 weeks in. Unfortunately my teammates (including one from Sunday who got 2 then) couldn't add to my points and we lost 6-3.

Obviously I am pleased with last night and so reflected on what worked well. I was pretty patient on the pips side and didn't hit too much but blocking in particular worked really well, I am starting to punch the ball a little better and get the ball back flatter, quicker and and in awkward zones. Service receive was good and controlled too, if a little passive at times. Forehand side worked well and I felt I moved well. I suspect Sunday sharpened me up too.

So all in all feeling pretty positive today.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Two main stories for this week's update. Firstly a game that I did not play. The winter season is all but done now and there are just a handful of games to complete. One of these is in the weakest league I play, the league title for which we had already won. There are also divisional KO (sudden death) cups, and the final was to be played. On paper we were the strongest side and despite being the team's #1 I decided as captain to sit out and let my teammates play (the player who came in at #3 has played virtually every match of the season and all tounds of the KO so I felt it wrong for him to miss it). The team we were playing has a very strong #1 but he wasn't to play as he hadn't played enough games to be eligible. I am 1 win 1 loss with him this year in that league. However, he played their last few matches and qualified to play. Their #2 is a rapidly improving 'youngster' (early 20s) whi has made huge strides this year under the guidance of their #1, and their #3 is somewhat weaker but quite experienced. On paper now the teams were very evenly matched and so it transpired. Format is 6 singles and 3 doubles, first to 5. It went all the way to the wire, with my lads winning the final doubles 11.9 11.9 11.9 : all games having been 9.9! There was a 5 set singles which we won 3.2 from 2.0 down. Next time I shall play, far too nerve wracking to watch!

Next point of note was yesterday's training session, being the first I have done with the poly balls. I have bought the xsf seamless and some tibhar seamed. There were one of each in play for 2-3 hours and we had no breakages. I'm pretty sure it was a tibhar I tried in the very early days and I absolutely hated it! Yesterday's ball I assume has been improved, as it played much better. I preferred the xsf of the two. Overall it was quite encouraging as it didn't seem to take much adjustment and was, well, just better than I had expected. There are my/our first impressions;

Ball looks a little bigger
Seamed ball has a slightly odd noise still.
Slightly slower
Still plently of spin on serves/short game
Longer topspin to topspin rallies; the spin seems to have scrubbed off the ball by the time it reaches the opponent.
For some reason we got good angle on our topspin attacks, the ball was either taking sidespin well or we were playing it earlier.
Lower bounce (or rather the ball holds up/dives a little sometimes).
As a contradiction, we found ourselves making some serves a little too bouncy and then netting others; need to get the touch for it.

Overall at our level it doesn't seem to radical a change, similar in many ways to adjusting to the playing conditions in different venues. At our level, we should get longer rallies.

I have ordered a box of xsf training balls from ttnpp that were reasonably priced (100 for £25 delivered). The xsf were £7 for 6 so no dearer than celluloid over here. If they are durable that is fine.

All of our local leagues and higher status competitions are moving to poly from winter 2015, so I will use these exclusively from now.

What I do think a real shame is that there are no orange poly balls yet, we used to use those exclusively in some venues (including) yesterday's.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Really enjoying this story... and it sounds like you're making great progress!

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

Aha most interesting! This is very similar to my current setup. Would be fascinated to hear how he gets on, what tactics he uses, and maybe see some of his games.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

We don't video much but I have this from a few years ago; I'm in black, he's in grey and this was the doubles final of a local league o-40s. Style wise, in singles at least, he looks to attack with FH as often as possible. He can drop back and chop or stay up with the DTecs, and gets lots of reversal, possibly due to the very slow blade he uses (just a cheap, no-brand premade). It was the end of a long weekend here and all 4 of us were shattered.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Strange match tonight. End of the league season (one of 5 leagues I am involved in!) and a rush to complete games that have been postponed ahead of presentation events. In theory we had 4 games remaining in this league, two of which were against the team who were going to come first (they needed a maximum of 3 points from their two games with us). We agreed what we call a 'double-header'; 1 night, 2 results. any match that appeared on both result cards would be played once, recorded twice. There is a slightly different format in one round of this league so we had to play 12 best of 5 matches. Even worse we had agreed to play at the opposition's venue but at the 12th hour it was unavailable, so we switched to ours but unfortunately couldn't start until 8.15 pm, due to a dance class using it until 8pm. A late night was in prospect.

In theory we had a chance of 2nd place in the league but 3rd was more likely. To maintain a chance of 2nd we needed to get a draw, or at least 9 out of the 19 points on offer.

I spoke to their captain the day before and we agreed a rapid fire approach to getting done; minimal warm-ups and just get on with it. I the end we completed the 12 best of fives in 2hrs 30mins, mission accomplished I would say!

In brief, we lost 6-3 and 7-3. For me this meant 2/3 singles wins and 1/2 doubles wins. The singles loss was to an in-form player who is top-40 Over 40 UK (top 10 O-50 and ex top-10 senior) so no surprise; I have only beaten him once in many games. The other 2 wins were against a talented U-40 and also a veteran (c.180 rank UK U-40) who co-incidentally is one of the players in the doubles video above (wearing black and red).

One thing I have observed in my switch from Inverted to SP is that, in these early days, I need a little more time to warm up to play well as the adjustments are not fully natural. I am about 50/50 with the players I beat tonight, but didn't feel I played well. Still, if you can win whilst not playing well, that's not so bad is it?

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

So first story this week is the end of competition and the start of celebration. Since coming back to TT in 2009 this is the first local league I competed in; Initially in the 2nd level, and sinc3 then in the top division. For those 4/5 seasons we've always come 2nd, both in league and KO cup competitions, despite some very close run things. A few players dropped out this year, weakening the league somewhat, and we won it very clearly. This was presentation night, where me, fellow forumite andrewh13 and longtime teammate 'BK' picked up our spoils. Fun, but a little sad that in amongst a league of 30+ teams and 200+ players our average age is 50+ and we are at the top.....






In other news I have a large box of poly XSF club balls for training, and the often slated TTNPP got those from China to the UK in 4 days! I should add that we have started to use poly balls in training, I shall post thoughts soon.

Also in equipment news my usual supplier of Rakza 9 had only 1 sheet of R9 left, and as I wanted 2 I have a sheet of R10(X) on its way (review to follow).

Finally it would be rude to order only inverted, so I have ordered some 802/40 and 563 from TTNPP. I am happy with Spectol but these are so cheap and well regarded I have to try them!

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

No table time for over a week, not good as I have a couple of big matches ahead, last two of the season. A combination of being away with work on club nights and the students at the uni where I work being heads down in their studies as exams approach. I am at a top uni and they work ever so hard.

On Sunday I have a grueling day of three matches, each being 2 singles 2 doubles, as we represent our league against others in an inter-league competition for our County. Then on Tuesday a final local league fixture, being a cup final for the top division. The format there is 6 doubles (4 each for 3 players) and 3 singles (1 each). This suits us as overall they are stronger than we are and we have a good record in doubles.

I felt the need to do some practice so took the XSF practice balls (1*) to the gym at lunchtime and did some service practice. The next two matches will be the last with celluloid so I am practicing entirely with poly now. Observations about the 1* XSF..... firstly they need wiping before use, they have LOTS of powder on them. I also thought they felt a little light, although need some open play to test this.

Observations from first service practice with poly?
- Very easy to serve short
- Spin seemed really good! at least there was lots of movement (side to side) on the sidespin serves.

This was with inverted that has definitely seen better days.

Of course there was no opponent in place to give an opinion of spin, but it seems consistent with my first impressions of poly practice two weekends ago.

I also practiced serving backhand with the inverted and twiddling back quickly; that seems quite comfortable.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Sunday was the final day of our counties o.40 interleague reps competition; basically all of the local leagues put team (s) into a county league to play against each other. You don't necessarily get the very best players, but always strong opposition. We were competing against 4 other teams in the top division and had a 7.2 win already on the board from game 1. We had three further matches to play and a bare team of 3, so no substitutes. Long story short, we won 8.1, 5.4 and lost the last 4.5. This gave us enough points to win the title, and as the league I represent is small we haven't won it for very many years, possibly ever!

I played OK and finished with 3/8 singles and a winning doubles record (playing at 1 I got the harder games vs their 1/2). Not having played for a fortnight due to various circumstances didn't help, nor did practicing serves with the poly ball a couple of days prior! Fortunately my teammates were outstanding, my doubles partner was 6/8 from p2 and the #3s 2/2 and 5/6.

Here's a little extra end of season silverware



You may notice my wrist is strapped, this has been troubling me a little of late and 12 games in one day did not help; it even hurt to shake hands afrer the game!

Tonight is the final match of our 2014/15 winter season, and is a delayed cup final in a league we finished 3rd. We are playing the league winners and on paper they should be too strong for us
The format however is 6 doubles and 3 singles, which is a little bit of a leveller, given their #1 has been uk top 10 in the past.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g

Final match of the season played, which was a cup final..... and it didn't go too well. On paper we needed to play very well, them to have a little bit of an off night and maybe a little luck to go our way. As it happened they played very well indeed, and had all the luck to boot. So you can guess the outcome! (5-1 loss).

Now, some thoughts on poly balls and testing of them. You may be a player who mostly plays in one venue, or you may play at many. I fall into the latter category. Last night we played with a celluloid ball in a humid, slow venue with a table I don't like. It was horrible to get the timing, spin was lacking and it was tough to kill a ball. As the celluloid ball is a known factor, I just put that down to the venue. On the way home I stopped into one of my regular venues and caught a quick best-of-7 with a clubmate, this time using an XSF one-piece poly. This venue is excellent aside from lighting which is a bit gloomy; nice 2-piece wooden legged Butterfly tables, solid floor, plenty of space and reasonable ventilation. With the XSF in this venue there was more spin,more speed and dare I say a more consistent bounce than the poly ball in the other venue. My point is make sure you are comparing like-with-like. I for one quite like the XSF and if all balls are like this then it won't change my world much.

I am now relieved that the season is over and I can get down to some technical and fitness training. For the latter I have joined my work's Gym.

_________________
Timo Boll ALC ST
FH Tibhar Evolution MX-P Max
BH Tibhar Evolution FX-S 1.8
185g