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Diary of an Italian chopper
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=28859
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Author:  CelestialBoy [ 19 Oct 2015, 20:14 ]
Post subject:  Diary of an Italian chopper

This is me in a division match, only a few seconds. I'm the younger guy.



I try to play mostly classical defence away from the table. That's my fun.
I play the sport from 1 year. I started with long pips immediately: never had an inverted on my bh. I was too fashinated by the youtube champions playing chopping style.
I decided to open this blog for a few nice reasons: to share my videos and get feedbacks, advices, thoughts that can help me to improve my game, to write thoughts about my world in table tennis, to improve my english :lol:

Well, about that match. It's my first in the seasonal championship and I did well. I won cleanly 3-0.
In the last set I was losing 2-7, but I won in the end 11-8.
My opponent is a senior with inverted on one side and anti on the other. A very tricky opponent. His ranking is almost twice mine. My teammates had a very hard time against him (they are two attackers). My second match was against an attacking guy not so higher than me in ranking. I won 3-0.
In the end my team win 5-2.

As already mentioned, my style is mainly defense. But there are many flaws in my game: first of all, the aggressive shots. :punch:
Btw I feel motivated to improve myself more and more. :rock: I hope to share some other videos soon.

Author:  Japsican [ 24 Oct 2015, 03:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Nice Celestial! How are things going?

Author:  NextLevel [ 25 Oct 2015, 06:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Good backhand rallying. Just curious - do you chop on the forehand as well?

Author:  CelestialBoy [ 27 Oct 2015, 06:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Japsican wrote:
Nice Celestial! How are things going?

Hi Jap! :up:
Not bad. Next Sunday we have the second match in our local division. I hope we will do well.
Last Saturday I join in a regional tournament. What amazing place:
Image
Never been in a "so serious" tournament.
I played 3 official matches: I lost the first 3-0 versus a very good attacker. I felt very under pressure against him.
The second match was against another classical defender like me.
A very looong match (especially for the umpire - the attacker of the first match haha).
At the end I won 3-0.
He was very patient and me too. The match was a mainly push war.
But I think I won for one and only one reason: I flipped the racket varying more the pushing, he doesn't, so his game was somewhat more predictable for me, than mine for him.
By the way he is a very good classical defender with sponged pips.
The third match was against an old guy with ox pips, a limpid pushblocker.
Oh guys, with his ox 979 he pimpled me off with crazy weird balls in zigzag motion and aggressive pushing/hitting.
He was totally immune to my spin variations in pushing and chopping.
I lost 3-0 in a very closed sets. I know he won with his experience. He was veeery patient.
The lesson I learned: I need to be less passive on easy no-spin balls.
I forgot totally to make videos, I'll try to remember this next sunday and i will share something (if I play well :rofl:).
NextLevel wrote:
Good backhand rallying. Just curious - do you chop on the forehand as well?

Yes, I chop on the forehand but my fh chop isn't as natural as my backhand chop.
But I work to make it more natural with pratice.

Author:  Lorre [ 27 Oct 2015, 07:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Nice blog, Celestial. Do you chop with OX?

Author:  BeGo [ 27 Oct 2015, 18:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

CelestialBoy wrote:
This is me in a division match, only a few seconds. I'm the younger guy.



I try to play mostly classical defence away from the table. That's my fun.
I play the sport from 1 year. I started with long pips immediately: never had an inverted on my bh. I was too fashinated by the youtube champions playing chopping style.
I decided to open this blog for a few nice reasons: to share my videos and get feedbacks, advices, thoughts that can help me to improve my game, to write thoughts about my world in table tennis, to improve my english :lol:

Well, about that match. It's my first in the seasonal championship and I did well. I won cleanly 3-0.
In the last set I was losing 2-7, but I won in the end 11-8.
My opponent is a senior with inverted on one side and anti on the other. A very tricky opponent. His ranking is almost twice mine. My teammates had a very hard time against him (they are two attackers). My second match was against an attacking guy not so higher than me in ranking. I won 3-0.
In the end my team win 5-2.

As already mentioned, my style is mainly defense. But there are many flaws in my game: first of all, the aggressive shots. :punch:
Btw I feel motivated to improve myself more and more. :rock: I hope to share some other videos soon.

You got some unique and dangerous chops there.

Something between chop, block, and drive,

In quite similar motion. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Your style remind me of Jang Song Man "Sliding Doors" [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]



Sent from my T1X Plus using Tapatalk

Author:  CelestialBoy [ 27 Oct 2015, 20:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Lorre wrote:
Nice blog, Celestial. Do you chop with OX?

Thank you :) Yes I chop with ox. I'm using the dragon talon.
I think this rubber suits me well because it's faster and with better reversal than my previous lp.
My chop stroke most of the time isn't a fast stroke, is more a slow and calm movement.
For this reason I think ox suits me well and the fast lp provides that bit catapult or power that I need.
BeGo wrote:
You got some unique and dangerous chops there.

Something between chop, block, and drive,

In quite similar motion. [SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Your style remind me of Jang Song Man "Sliding Doors" [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND TIGHTLY-CLOSED EYES]

:mm: What a great match vs he zi I saw! :rock:

Thanks to a friend of mine at the saturday tournament, here are photos of me doing a bh and fh chop stroke.
ImageImageImage

ImageImageImage

I need to work very hard especially on fh chop: position, bat angle, brushing motion.
I think these are the three critical points where I have to focus.
Today at evening I have training at the club but I got a light flu and sore throat and dunno If I go.
Can't risk to go out and worsen my health...:sweat:
I need to be in top shape for sunday.

Author:  Lorre [ 27 Oct 2015, 22:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

CelestialBoy wrote:
Lorre wrote:
Nice blog, Celestial. Do you chop with OX?

Thank you :) Yes I chop with ox. I'm using the dragon talon.
I think this rubber suits me well because it's faster and with better reversal than my previous lp.
My chop stroke most of the time isn't a fast stroke, is more a slow and calm movement.
For this reason I think ox suits me well and the fast lp provides that bit catapult or power that I need.


I see. You never tried sponge?

Author:  CelestialBoy [ 28 Oct 2015, 01:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Lorre wrote:
I see. You never tried sponge?

Yes I've used Neptune 0.7 mm on a Defplay Senso for a few months.
Then I returned to ox for these reasons:
° chopping with ox is easier for me and I make less errors
° ox is easier to play at the table
° easier to return serves
° easier to do punching or blocking shots off the bounce
When I used sponge I was able to add heavy backspin with a more aggressive stroke but I was less consistent.
The truth is, I can't handle sponged pips especially during an important match.
Often emotions and anxiety "stops" me and I'm not able to play free and fluid as I want. So I start to make errors on errors.
With ox I feel somewhat safer also in those panic moments.

Author:  Lorre [ 28 Oct 2015, 20:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

CelestialBoy wrote:
Yes I've used Neptune 0.7 mm on a Defplay Senso for a few months.
Then I returned to ox for these reasons:
° chopping with ox is easier for me and I make less errors
° ox is easier to play at the table
° easier to return serves
° easier to do punching or blocking shots off the bounce
When I used sponge I was able to add heavy backspin with a more aggressive stroke but I was less consistent.
The truth is, I can't handle sponged pips especially during an important match.
Often emotions and anxiety "stops" me and I'm not able to play free and fluid as I want. So I start to make errors on errors.
With ox I feel somewhat safer also in those panic moments.


I see. Neptune, however, isn't the easiest pip around to chop with. Never tried something like P1-R/Feint III/P4/Feint II?
I understand OX is easier. But might it not be better to bite the bullet with sponged LP, handling better and better your anxiety, so you can actually play with sponged LP in important games? Anxiety is something you can overcome.
Besides when you're getting better and better, OX will be less and less rewarding because you'll start to chop more aggressive, but there will no positive results for being aggressive. You can walk two ways from there: (1) keep OX and become very good at keeping the ball on the table or (2) transition to sponge, but this will take a lot of time. Again, why not bite the bullet now when you're still developing?
Just my thoughts.

Author:  CelestialBoy [ 29 Oct 2015, 02:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Last evening I felt a bit better and I went to the club for a little time. Just to make two shots with a teammate.
I played sooo lazy because the not top health state, but I made a video. My teammate is a great allround player with strong attack.



Lorre wrote:
I see. Neptune, however, isn't the easiest pip around to chop with. Never tried something like P1-R/Feint III/P4/Feint II?
I understand OX is easier. But might it not be better to bite the bullet with sponged LP, handling better and better your anxiety, so you can actually play with sponged LP in important games? Anxiety is something you can overcome.
Besides when you're getting better and better, OX will be less and less rewarding because you'll start to chop more aggressive, but there will no positive results for being aggressive. You can walk two ways from there: (1) keep OX and become very good at keeping the ball on the table or (2) transition to sponge, but this will take a lot of time. Again, why not bite the bullet now when you're still developing?
Just my thoughts.

Well I think you came straight to the point. I haven't tried the rubbers you mentioned, the p1-r 0.5 mm is on my wish list.
The way on my mind is a "middle one": (1.5) Keep ox until I start to need sponge, then start a new journey with sponge. Maybe it's just a matter of time. Now I'm attracted to the idea of master (big word) the ox game with all its strenghts and weaknesses. Also, I have fun with it, and I think having fun is my best option for now to overcome anxiety during important matches.
What do you think about?

Author:  Pipsy [ 29 Oct 2015, 08:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

Celestial, I think it's the video in your first post that is 'just two shots' :lol: . This fragment is longer and much more interesting. You surely have a good ability to keep the ball on the table!

I don't really agree with Lorre. I think the OX-pips are often deceptive for your opponents and you win quite some points with that at the level you're playing. A sponged Curl P1r will be better for chopping against heavy loops (which I didn't see in the two fragments) and when it is necessary to keep chops and pushes low and long all the time.

I think you have a margin to improve your skills with OX. There are some great examples at top level: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=23929

Did you ever think about incorporating loops in your game? That could be a huge improvement. Unless it's your choice to be a more classical defender of course, nothing wrong with that!

Author:  Roy [ 29 Oct 2015, 21:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

I especially liked the way you bend your knees and chop from the floor level (0:50) and also the way you can return hard attacks. :)

Author:  RebornTTEvnglist [ 29 Oct 2015, 21:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

I can see where Lorre is coming from, as sponged LP is generally the choice of good classical choppers. The reason is it lets the rubber bite the ball better and create more spin. With Ox, you are really quite restricted in what spin you can create yourself. I use Ox LP myself and I do chop with it at times, but I know that my chops spin is rather dependent upon what the opponent has put on the ball. I use Ox because I mainly play up to the table and pushblock with the pips, which is where Ox excels. At the level you are at right now CB, the Ox pips will work fine, but as you climb in levels it won't be as effective if you stay classically chopping. If you think your style may change as your game develops, then stick with Ox. But it would be prudent to try sponged LP (probably in Talon for now) if you have a 2nd blade). It only needs to be 0.6 sponge, just to see the difference you can create with the same pip you have in Ox.

Author:  Lorre [ 29 Oct 2015, 21:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Diary of an Italian chopper

CelestialBoy wrote:
Well I think you came straight to the point. I haven't tried the rubbers you mentioned, the p1-r 0.5 mm is on my wish list.
The way on my mind is a "middle one": (1.5) Keep ox until I start to need sponge, then start a new journey with sponge. Maybe it's just a matter of time. Now I'm attracted to the idea of master (big word) the ox game with all its strenghts and weaknesses. Also, I have fun with it, and I think having fun is my best option for now to overcome anxiety during important matches.
What do you think about?


Having fun is the best remedy to overcome anxiety. :up: I understand OX gives you the certainty in tight games, but I think a 0,5 sponge underneath a good chopping LP will also give you that, including some variation options. Anyway you should give the 0,5 version of the P1-R a try during training and I bet you really will like it.

Pipsy wrote:
Celestial, I think it's the video in your first post that is 'just two shots' :lol: . This fragment is longer and much more interesting. You surely have a good ability to keep the ball on the table!

I don't really agree with Lorre. I think the OX-pips are often deceptive for your opponents and you win quite some points with that at the level you're playing. A sponged Curl P1r will be better for chopping against heavy loops (which I didn't see in the two fragments) and when it is necessary to keep chops and pushes low and long all the time.

I think you have a margin to improve your skills with OX. There are some great examples at top level: viewtopic.php?f=71&t=23929

Did you ever think about incorporating loops in your game? That could be a huge improvement. Unless it's your choice to be a more classical defender of course, nothing wrong with that!


Yes, making points with deception is really nice, but it's a short term goal. It has a level limit. If Celestial is ambitious, then OX will speed up his initial progress, but will halt it at a certain level. At that point he'll need to learn to play with sponged LP and certain strokes (e.g. pushing, chopping,...) will be different, not only feeling wise, but also playing wise. So he now learns OX play and later on sponge play. If he now bites the bullet, he'll learn sponge play immediately. The latter certainly being a gain in time and effort.

I only advise OX for chopping if the player is really, really agile. A really, really good retriever.

Even classical defenders can loop the hell out of a ballb. They just never use it. Chtchetinine being the best example. If you only can defend, then the opponent only needs to wait.

RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
I can see where Lorre is coming from, as sponged LP is generally the choice of good classical choppers. The reason is it lets the rubber bite the ball better and create more spin. With Ox, you are really quite restricted in what spin you can create yourself. I use Ox LP myself and I do chop with it at times, but I know that my chops spin is rather dependent upon what the opponent has put on the ball. I use Ox because I mainly play up to the table and pushblock with the pips, which is where Ox excels. At the level you are at right now CB, the Ox pips will work fine, but as you climb in levels it won't be as effective if you stay classically chopping. If you think your style may change as your game develops, then stick with Ox. But it would be prudent to try sponged LP (probably in Talon for now) if you have a 2nd blade). It only needs to be 0.6 sponge, just to see the difference you can create with the same pip you have in Ox.


Reb is once again spot on in his analysis. Putting a small sponge underneath your Talon will give a good comparison with your OX version now.

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