OOAK Table Tennis Forum

In general, don't do it. Definitely not when you are far ahead and only if it helps you relax when you are far behind.

Everyone is different but IMO, certain things are the beginning of danger especially against better or stable players. Messing around when up by a big margin is one of them. Once you lose your concentration and let your opponent get back into the game with careless play, you may have to work hard to regain focus.

As my game became more stable at the end of last year, I started winning many games against players from being down 5-10 or 4-10. Of course I would lose those games more often, but I realized that as you get better, the precise play of the point and whether it unfolds in a pattern you control is the key, not the score. If I get the edge on serve and serve return, I should win the point unless you get lucky. Opponents are constantly learning norr and more about how to play you so don't mess around on points. Immediately you get to a match point, always continue the attitude that got you there.

I find that the reason why lower rated players mess around is that they don't feel in control of those points or they assume they are in control when they might just be lucky the opponent is missing.

In general, because of the strategic importance of serve and serve return, it is very important doe the stability of your results to have a broad arsenal of deceptive serve pairs. You don't need to win the point outright - you just need to cause hesitation.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Well my advise is strictly for practice games. There are the practice games you want to win and then there are the practice games to try but also try new things. I'm just hoping he relaxes his serve at some point!

So my other advice, which I put on my own blog is - use your ears.

I watched the 'grape juice' video again and I could hear that thick contact on a few backhand loops. Just like me.

Being in a TT poverty zone is disaster for blocking practice...that's going to be a tough one.

If it's a practice game, why wait until you are up to do the serve at a higher level? Do it any time you want.

Relaxation on serves comes with control.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

And vice versa.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

I knew you (or someone else) was going to make a similarly smart comment. My point is that when you go for more than you can control, you cannot be relaxed. So you go for what you can control and accept what you can't. You cannot push the upper limits of your ability and be relaxed. You can be relatively relaxed, but that is semantics.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Small steps NL.

Plus we lose out on other practice elements if we dump it into the net 50% of the time.

Yes, but that should not be tied to the score.

My view is that most serve practice happens away from the table.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Just thinking of what you said elsewhere that you can't get adequate spin to control a serve unless you swing fast through the ball. when trying for control i tend to swing to the ball and not through the ball. There is a happy medium of getting the amount of spin my technique can support, so point taken.

So going for much less doesn't always work either.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

You probably know what I meant but just in case, let me be clearer - it is hard to serve low, heavy backspin with an open paddle without a fast racket swing. In fact I am also trying to serve low and decent topspin with an open paddle if you loop at some of my recent videos and that is hard with an open paddle too. You can keep the ball low AMD with more forward momentum with a more closed paddle and a slower stroke, but the backspin will be lighter (it is also easier to disguise the spin as no spin that way).

In the end, if you practice the swing ball in hand away from the table or on the floor for about five minutes a day, it gets better with time. If you don't focus too much on wanting the ideal serve in a fixed amount of time, but keep working on it little by little, in a month or two, you will be surprised by the results.

But sometimes, our desire to have something yesterday thwarts our ability to get it tomorrow.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

The other thing is that more important than the speed is the acceleration at contact. The main reason why I encourage speed is because it is helpful to have speed for deception but what I find is that slow speed with good acceleration tends to be extremely deceptive in the amount of spin it can produce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coqYai89Myo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8FYyIVpjww

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

What I find is that you only really need the speed at the point of contact. If I can whip it good (insert youtube video here) in a small motion then while it may not be deceptive, it still tends to be hard to read. With more practice and analysis I could probably get backspin and top spin to look very much the same.

Okay, I said this would get really dull, and now I will keep that promise. Here are all five matches I played in three hours at the club Monday night. Because it is so small on busy nights we have a two-match rule. Even if you win, after the second match you have to leave, and the loser leaves too. We have a sign-up board like most small clubs. So I ended up playing the same two people in order both times I came up on the table, even though I won those matches. Then I had one five-setter with WL the penholder LP BH who crushed me like a grape a few posts above here.

I get confused during these matches about whether I am practicing or playing to win, and what I am practicing. So I could accomplish more if I kept a clear focus. But I only really notice what happened when I edit the video later. I watch most of the points in slow motion in iMovie. And seen in slo-mo, even the good points look awful. But keeping things in perspective, the reason I tried the goofy-stance serves in the first place was to get looks at a third ball BH topspin attack in match play. Really that's the only reason for it. And I got lots of those, and I am making about 50% now. So that's good.

The two easiest avenues to improve, from my watching of these, are to always let my wrist go on those BHs. I do half super tense all moving from the elbow, and half with decent wrist involvement. In the match with WL at one point I hit five good BHs in three consecutive points. Then I stopped doing it for no good reason. So just don't stop.

And the other is to move my stupid feet and stay in close to a good ready position with my elbow in a neutral golden point. I lean back, lunge over, leave my bat to one side, drop the bat below the table between shots, all kinds of lazy stuff. I am not talking about acrobatic crossover steps or pivots. Just maintaining a quality body position ready for any shot through every point start to finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq3S6yslu54


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXUp0YI3oIE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkKQHnyiU3s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qocfoofk_n4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c60Iv_fr5Dg

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

BRS didn't I see you chopping in an earlier vid with pips? Those BHs were awesome and not with pips lol. I'm not sure if you've mentioned your level, but they were some smooth shots. As you said...don't stop them.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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Won't be able to watch the videos until the late evening, but you don't sound like you have gotten to the point where you accept your strokes and your form. Even when I was 1700 and had few if any strokes other than flat strokes, I always accepted my strokes as a given and just thought about deploying them.as well as I could.

As a general rule, while a ready position is a good thing, you can get away without having one for a very long time so work on it but don't obsess over it any more than being ready for a return at all times. The key is always to play a wide or fast or short enough shot that the opponent feels compelled to control the ball back to you. The guy who taught me this was not a power player so I don't think it is a strategy for people who.have more power than others as long as you can play good shots.

If your topspin attack is semi consistent, then the next thing we might have to do is get you to return the ball long consistently and defend against the first attack. That I think is possibly a bigger growth area for you than your attacking instincts.

In any case, will talk more tonight.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

LOL You didn't see me with pips. I can't hit the floor with LP if i tried. I used other guy's lp a few times and it was so hard i couldn't believe anybody plays that way.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono