OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Another example of spin avoidance for looping underspin and looping generally. With all the effort he is putting into his strokes, you would think that he doesn't need it. Think again.

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One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Here's a match from yesterday against the same strong lefty with 0X LP bh. The most notable thing about this is how I get nervous and choke in a practice match that counts for absolutely nothing. I just have to laugh, it really is funny, even while I am doing it.

As we played I was mostly trying to distinguish between misses where I tried a good stroke and just got something wrong, and bad/nothing/passive strokes where I totally punted and nothing good could possibly happen. Obviously I'd like to eliminate the latter, and if I'm clueless about what stroke to play still pick one and maybe get lucky with it.

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Why do you think you choked and why do you think that a practice match setting should make any difference if you care about the outcome enough for it to affect your play?

The one thing I always try to do when playing is to avoid taking credit for the other player missing. It keeps me grounded in reality, even if I had any part to play. I am happy they missed but I am not a defender, so I am not going to say I made them miss when they obviously could have returned the ball with the proper stroke.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Hi guys...I missed you guys!

Looks like a ton of discussion about the usual topics, excellent.

I was watching some kids practicing with their skateboard and doing tricks, like using their foot to make the board flip. I instantly thought of table tennis. Requires a ton of practice. I mean in order to do a good loop, the angle of the paddle must be closed and must be hit with lots of speed. This is not something one can learn over night, for sure! Just like the skateboarders.

I think the problem with wanting to looping the ball all of the time is a matter of practice - and the mindset to do it. Gotta believe that ball can spin enough to get back down on to the table. It's less powering a shot and more like throwing a curve ball - just trust it will go back in. Now in game speed footwork, timing, etc can all get pretty ugly unless lots of practice is done - while keeping the same mindset. I think this is what trips us learners up - just the amount of work it is going to take for these loops to really work. It's worth it, tho.

Skateboarders mess up all of the time and hurt themselves even. In table tennis it just costs us 1 point.

Hope you are feeling better, Russ.

The more things change, the more they remain the same. Someone just told me they learned by watching my forehand. First time I have ever heard that. I can retire now.

But I need to fix BRS's BH first....

Great post, BTW.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Don't force it, you can only lead a horse to water you know.

With me, I need the "ah-ha" moment to learn something new - Brett has been the best for me but sometimes I learn by other means.

I wish I was feeling better. I played today anyway for an hour. Got demolished by my usual competition. Yikes! How did I forget how to bend my knees so fast?? At least I beat this one player who I had trouble with 9 months ago.

Now you have started sounding like Ringer... I am going to switch to short pips...

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I still find attacking a low ball (something that BRS and I don't see all that often with our competition) and looping it over the net and back down on the table to be magic. When it works I'm surprised. I mean occasionally I hit a shot that feels 'professional'. Sure looping higher balls goes in and that's great and all - but we could just as likely counter hit them nearly the same.Those lower balls become magical with speed and spin.

Perhaps BRS feels this too - I suspect so, which is why players at our level tend to hit flatter shots at times. Magic trick is still magic. So the key becomes the mindset to do the magic trick as much as possible - thus making it seem less magical and just how it's done.

I understand more than you will ever know. That is why you need to challenge your loop and build your fantasy. I want to post some videos on Cobalt's thread. Sometimes, you can let a loop drop below table height from your robot and try to loop it. Not scoop it, loop it. I do ball drops from the floor sometimes. You CBS hit sidespin shots around the net out of your hand. You can do a backhand sidespin flick off the bounce over the table after letting the balk drop below table height. You can take backspin serves off the bounche below table height and try to backhand sidespin loop then over the net. You just have to try. Brush and try. All these tries help you

You already have the right mindset. Hopefully what you are saying will infect BRS as well.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I'll happily take credit for the opponent's miss almost every time But then that is generally the aim of my game lol.

As for the magic trick called the "loop from low" I have on occasion hit some of these and the feeling of a winner from this shot is indeed magnificent. Unfortunately my mobility doesn't afford me to make this shot part of my normal game, but it sure feels good when you pull one off... I also know how it feels to be on the receiving end of this shot (more often than I dish it that's for sure) and its damned annoying when a looper looks like they've sent the ball long only for the spin to bring it down on the very end of the table, especially in a corner where you've already written the point onto your score mentally lol.

I watched your vid BRS. Again it was speckled with moments of greatness, and some very ordinary stuff. But I wouldn't be too concerned, I see subtle improvements in your reactions and shots. Sure, not every time, but you are coming along. I think you even sometimes look slightly more relaxed on serve receive (but still not enough). Your pip guy doesn't look too strong on his pips side, although he does look fairly strong on his looping side. You sent some good loops to his pips and he sent them long as he doesn't have a good chop block from what I saw. Sure he hit some blocks that defeated you, but unless you play a lot of pip players that do this to you I wouldn't worry. If you do play a lot of them, then you'll eventually get the hang of how to return them...well most the players I play do anyway

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Some really great shots in there, BRS. A few times you hit the ball long probably because when your opponent blocked your push it came back with more topspin than you realised. Also there were a lot of points where you pushed when you could have looped, on either side.

Tactically, this guy is weak with his pips - you can cream him by paying no spin into his backhand and getting an easy next ball. He'll also struggle with a slow long loop to the backhand.

Some good services too. Well played.

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Piggybacking on wilkinru's post, I think it might make sense for BRS when he is healthier to vary his timing in practice. Take some balls off the bounce, take some balls at the peak of the bounce or slightly after, take some balls below net height, and take some balls below table height. I think trying this lets people see the reliability of coming round the side and the problem with going into the ball directly from the back when looping.

Since you don't have regular practice partners, you will have to either do this with the robot or with ball drops on the floor or just hitting the ball out of your hand. That said, developing the touch and the spin to make the ball dip is always eye opening. I think it helps people realize that they are often taking the ball too early unless they need to rush their opponent.

Here is one of my better rallies doing stuff like this. The key is to keep experimenting. I am sure I have not pushed the limits of my imagination yet. Big D is often switching hands during rallies and trying to do incredible shots. Just have fun!

https://youtu.be/Ty9vvMlNyuU?list=PL1xH ... 5vAY&t=733

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yeah. You mentioned once around 20% doing below the table loops as the most, but perhaps in order to mix things up we could do considerably more than that for a short duration - like 2 weeks or so. It is a nice skill to have and allows us to play with the timing. I'm actually thinking this could be my plan B in matches. Take a step back and bring it from a lower position with lots of spin.

Nah. Taking the ball late habitually is not good. Being able to adapt to the ball is. It is the different timings that force your brain to understand and adjust to the spin and simplify the stroke. You learn pretty quickly why coming hard from the back of the ball is a bad idea.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

The other thing is that your stroke when the ball is early or late should not be that different, with maybe more spin/brush when it is late. IF you practice at one timing, you may make too many accommodations for that timing while missing the bigger picture.

IF you want to do anything for 2 weeks, play slower with more spin, even on high balls. More spin is always good for understanding timing.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus