OOAK Table Tennis Forum

You don't need ti work on it serving mainly backhand.

This revives the question of why i should be serving from a bizarre position sideways off the BH edge. I can't see how it is advantageous to me in any way. My BH serves are terrible, but i can serve fh decently from square on to the table in ready position. So unless someone can give a potent reason to serve like the pros do i ought to stop trying.

Then i can invest that practice time into something more useful.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

With your serve recovery, I think you've got all your weight on your heels so your serve recovery is more like a serve followed by a step over. Try putting your weight on the balls of your feet and hop/pivot to a neutral position.

If you watch ZJK's serve, he does a stomp with his left foot, his weight is on the balls of his feet, and he pushes off with the left foot which allows him to do the hop/pivot to a neutral position.

Thanks for the photos GMan. But why do zjk and the rest stand that way in the first place? For example i only do it because everybody else does. Ringer said basically the same. And that isn't a very strong reason.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

And you think it was a mistake that I served mainly backhand? And you don't think I felt that the pendulum position was bizarre? I actually made the decision to backhand and tomahawk and reverse tomahawk (windshield, not backhand side) serve exclusively without anyone telling me to. The windshield was my way of getting pendulum type sidespin until I started serving pendulum and backhand reverse. I don't use it any more only because the recovery from a ball that pulls to the backhand is more challenging to me and people can just loop it even over the table with their backhands.

The thing is that you have gotten to a decently high level before trying to work on this. Most people who have regular coaching would have sorted this out as part of their game development strategy much earlier. Now, it's fruit for you, but like I said, I don't consider it a bottleneck in your game - just stuff that you can use to tighten and constrain your opponents and which can grow with you as you get better. It took me literally years to get my serves up to the level I got them to with different bits of info here and there and I am still trying to make certain things better here and there. And by playing better players, I see new tricks.

I have heard three answers to your "question", the first of which I find true but is neither here nor there, and the second which I find less convincing in the era of non-hidden serves and only works because people still hide the serves anyways, and the third I find very convincing because it is the way the world works.

The first is that serving towards the table in a way that lets you rotate into it gives you the ability to put more power into your serve. This is true, but is neither here nor there as I have seen many people with interesting serves serve facing the table. The tomahawk and backhand serves are known, but there is a pendulum serve that my old coach Enoch Green uses while holding his paddle like a lollipop and other times like a can opener to get side top or side backspin. There is a forehand sideswing serve with a quick wrist and paddle angle from a standing position that can be used to serve pendulum side backspin or side topspin that a guy I have played a few times uses to make me look stupid on a regular basis (I play him sometimes in one of my leagues). Serving can be as creative or limited as you want it to be - all you need are two serves that look similar but are different, and as a looper, one of them should have a primarily backspin orientation.

The second is that these high level serves are hard to read because of the orientation of the server. I doubt this is true and I think this is more about hidden serves or the potential to do so with your arm behind your body vs at the side of your body.

The last is that you don't have to reinvent the wheel and you are copying good players. This is pretty strong, but begs the question of where the first person learned his serve from. But it is still pretty strong as it makes it easier to learn how to play this game well if you can just do what the good players are doing.

If your backhand serves are terrible, you are probably serving with your arm rather than with your elbow and hips. Just saying.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I was contemplating the same thing recently - BH serve can be quite effective if you get good spin on it. Watching pro's videos it feels like their motion is much more explosive and they appear to serve with the entire body involved.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Serving is supposed to be an explosive activity just like looping. More controlled because of the delicate nature of controlling and placing serves given they bounce once on your side, but still explosive. Your core should be working on most serves.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Maybe because it gives you a longer diagonal which helps with short serves and fast long serves.

After watch your serve practice...I do things entirely differently.

I tend to try and just do the best serve I can...the ideal serve. I'll mess it up most of the time, but man I'll get that perfect one and really be happy. Over time I'll get a higher % of them. Errors become less too.

I find serving to be relaxing and like an art...like drawing even. Sometimes it ends up great and sometimes it ends up as garbage, but no one is looking.

What do you guys do in serve practice? Set time or X balls? I just do it until I'm bored.

That sounds like a good approach to practice. But then what do you do in a match? Because you don't mess up most of the time in the video you posted.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Coached players would have learned to serve competently from the start. Thanks for the sensible list of possible reasons. larrytt has blogged a lot about hiding serves, so I'm sure that is a reason at the higher levels. But not something I aspire to learn. I will fool around with serving square on and see if I can evade this problem.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

About the BH serves, yes I am moving my arm. Anything that can be wrong with a BH serve is wrong with mine. They are far too hopeless to put time into right now.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

This makes sense. I don't have the long fast serve to take advantage of it, but if does make sense.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

It's a process for me with a new serve. I do plenty of practice matches during the week - so I'll try out a new serve. I'll also mess it up, but I want to see if it has any value. From there I'll then practice it more...slowly add it to my matches. Use it once or twice a game.
With more practice the quality of the serve ends up being OK to good during matches. Honestly I don't hone in my serves to be that good - too much other stuff to work on.

Shush! Don't tell BRS that - he might get jealous and frustrated and step on some more balls...

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

These are two things I am missing. The first is lack of opportunity and the second is lack of ability. @NL, I practiced very patiently for three years to no real benefit. That is what makes me angry.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono