OOAK Table Tennis Forum

huh. Another ee. There are a couple of us here.
I'm a SCADA eng.

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Chasse Patate

alright, this has been bothering me for quite a while

i almost always without fail bring my elbow above my shoulder when i go for a forehand loop--when i go forward this isn't too bad but a lot of the time i just brush up and there is no forward drive...

i did some searching and it seems like wang liqin, ma long, and zhang jike all have their elbows lower than their shoulder when they perform a loop... the exception is when they play choppers and there is a seldom loop here and there where the elbow breaks above the shoulder...

one step forward two steps back--story of my TT life ...

cool

The elbow should not break above the shoulder unless on mistimed shots. The problem is that you are starting your backswing too low on topspin balls and adjusting your racket at the last second. Backswing higher!

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

so i type out this long convoluted post about my game but it gets deleted when i hit 'submit' and the site prompts me to sign back into my account since apparently i went on and on too much with my original post...

so i will keep it short and simple instead i guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb7YFf4Y-uA

[aerial 2-3 robert]
was up 2-0, first time ever, up 4-2 in the 3rd but couldn't seal the deal and he came back to win 3-2... one of the few players at the local club i have not yet to beat. damn his serve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6k623zqCxU

[aerial 3-1 steve]
used to really suck vs his heavy backspin serve but have since learned to vary receives by pushing heavy and looping

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5VOrerPMs8

[aerial 2-3 neil]
still suck vs dead balls--getting better vs neil's strange style. serving heavy backspin vs OX LP and sponged LP is hard to receive too, who knew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtQ44Bo_xE

[aerial 3-0 mike]
lost to mike the other day playing a pushing only style. trying to find and expand that middle gear--still find myself flailing uncontrollably at high balls and when they land it's awesome but when it's dumped into the net i want to break my paddle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGLvO_-eGUo

[aerial 0-3 collin]
apparently he used to be top 5 in the U.S. under 12 years old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fF-Ogp6Woo

[aerial 1-3 collin]
he let me win one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LV5DbWaY8g

[aerial 2-3 neil]
match 2, same result. damn my wimpy shots vs dead balls

all in all i gotta say at this rate of progress i probably won't break 2000 by the end of this year.

who knows though, miracles may happen

i have been interviewing for a position back in nyc though, and if i do move back that would be a big boost to have multiple full time clubs within a 50 mile radius

we'll see i guess

I could write more but just a few points.
You will not reach 2000 with your pushing game.
Learn HOW to push. A good push makes contact while the ball is rising, not after the top of the bounce. Push at the top of the bounce, it had better be a Hard push. Push after the top of the bounce and you are just feeding the wolf.
Get rid of your backhand flip. It is your MOST inconsistent shot. That is usually used to return a short serve. Learn a good backhand Drive. You miss most of them because you are rocking back on your heels during the flip. Don't use a flip off the table.
Don't block medium power loops, Counter loop them. Block a medium power loop when you are off the table, expect a harder loop next.

Maybe when you get to NYC if you do, things will change. There is a lot wrong with your current approach to the game that needs to be revised completely. Other than your serves, a lot of your game seems to have regressed, probably because you haven't figured out how to adjust to to the returns and balls you are getting back. You also aren't recovering quickly after the serve. Hopefully, you can address these things if you hang out in a higher level TT environment for a longer time. I don't get the sense that you are stringing together your shots or anticipating anything.

More than anything else, learn to move to the ball - your elbow should remain bent throughout the shot for most of your TT shots and that indicates that you were close enough to the ball to play a good shot. The process for improving at TT is largely to play higher quality shots against more and more kinds of balls. And you can't do that if you can't move into position to play the shot. Getting a high ball to your short backhand and not getting beside the table to drive through it with your forehand is a no-no. And you can't wait till the last second to do this.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

This is a GEM right here! Bu



Also GREAT advice!! Honestly, as elementary as this is, I hadn't really thought of this. I know I over-block loops when they are medium power and there is no need.

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Japsican,

Come on - that's not true. Even when I hit with you, when I let up on looping, or hit you a softer one, you went out of your way to get more aggressive on the weaker shots. Sometimes, table distance is a factor, but the real factor is preparation - what separates lower players from higher players is how prepared they are to do things that cause problems. It's almost like weaker players are waiting till the last second to do something, while better players have trained enough to get ready before the opponent hits the ball to do the kinds of things they want to do. It's mostly cognitive and partly athletic.

In general, table tennis improvement is just about improving your quality of response to various kinds of shots and stringing those higher quality responses together to win points. Chopping spinnier loops, consistent blocking more and higher quality shots, blocking to points on the table that make aggressive reloops/returns harder etc. There is no single way to do it, or there would be only one way to play table tennis, and in the right kind of room, retrieving is as valid a style as close to the table looping off the bounce if the retriever can be more consistent than the looper.

I look at aerial's game and I just shake my head at the number of times he pushes the ball back and forth. IT's like he is not practicing things that win points. If you don't do anything else with your practice time, spend at least 25% of the time practicing things that win points (or rather, cause opponents problems). Pushing to the middle of the table generally does not. But being able to reloop a loop at the lower levels tends to do so easily as most people at the lower levels just block loops. So counterlooping is one of the quickest ways to get to the 2000+ level, especially if you can do it in response to an opening loop.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

for what it's worth I almost never pushed the ball in the past, always going for a backhand or forehand flip

I'd like to say my pushing game has gotten better (because it wasn't existent before), but I agree with all the points that have been said about the pushing being bad... I guess it's to a point where I get lazy and just push back because I know more often than not my opponent will just push it back to me anyway--need to find that middle gear

It's sad to hear over and over that my flip should be thrown out haha it feels so nice when it hits, but alas... that's not very often.

the high level german dude said the same thing and he actually was an advocate of me pushing more but I can see why one may say my game has regressed... I stand by my comment, forever one step forward and two steps back... maybe I should just start from scratch with the left hand haha

I have a friend (at the time, maybe rc1200) who almost completely shut down the opening loop game of a RC ~1900 player with high level pushing. Don't underestimate how easy it is to win games with a really good push.

He went on to lose as the rest of his game wasn't up to the same level as his push, but my point still stands.

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Chasse Patate

Yes, the key word is a GOOD push.
A slow push of a ball 15 inches above the table is not a good push. It will bounce almost 15 inches high on your return.
You cannot make a good push when you are retreating. A good push is done by stepping into the ball, not falling back.
This is for Aerial, not you Silver.
One thing I was going to say earlier, Aerial just said , I push because I know they will push back. That's a good way to keep your game at their level, not reach 2000.

I tend to agree with Hookshot. A top player at our club says he only does what he needs to to win a game. This often means just keeping the ball in play against weaker opposition until they miss. I agree to a point however I think that is also cementing in bad habits so when a good player does come along those habits of just poking around, if ingrained, might make you cannon fodder for a good player. The thing is, most of our club players are easy games for the top guy but I still think he needs to be trying to play his A game more often so that when a genuine challenge comes up, he doesn't have to suddenly change the way he plays. I think its also now starting to show that he's coming back to the pack.

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The facts of it is, even when you are playing your A game against a smart, higher level player, they will work out ways to get on top of that game. So you actually need 2 x A games that you can switch from one to the other when the first stops giving you the momentum. I can do this with someone who is my level or a bit below. But I fail (or at least struggle) at it when the opponent has their own alternative strategies to put into play. This is exactly the predicament I found myself in when I was 2-0 up and deuce in the 3rd at Ballarat on the weekend against the rc1500 player. I needed to find a switch that worked, but I'd already given him my A game and over 3 sets he found his answers....which carried him through to a win in the 5th set.

Its not that easy to have a reserve A game to switch to, btw, Especially if you are already playing to your limit.

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Everyone needs to learn to push. His point was likely that you were attacking short balls that you should have pushed. To quote a high level Australian coach, "Pushing long balls is mostly bad." You need to fix this attitude. Unless you are facing a very good blocker who will win points with blocks and counters off your weaker topspins, you need to open and get ready to attack the block. Against a good blocker who will push back your push, you just need to be selective.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus