OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Aerial,

You've already gotten lots of good advice from players much better than myself. Nextlevel mentioned that you are treating many of these balls like they have heavy spin and that you need to swing through the ball more. I agree, and I think one of the overlooked things that causes this is being too far away from the table. When you are too far away from the table, the ball is on it's descent phase and you will have a natural tendency to swing too vertically.

Take this return of serve for example:



I think in general you are often too far from the table. Try to focus on digging in closer and hitting the ball at the top of the bounce against these players. If you don't, you will develop the bad habit of constantly swinging vertically at the ball from all distances. That's what happened to me.

I actually wanted to and forgot to mention that so thanks for putting that in there. That was part of the point in my statement that the ball doesn't kick out, but yes, he needs to stay close to the table when playing pips players so he can take their balls earlier because it isn't going to come to him and there is no spin to drive the ball when it comes off the table.

To add to this, think about your contact point on the ball carefully. You aren't going to play over the ball like it is a topspin ball. There are many ways of approaching such balls, but I will let you figure out yours. Some use a backspin philosophy with adjustments, some use a topspin philsophy with adjustments - the backspin approach tends to give more pace, the topspin approach more spin. But both are workable.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I'll tell you what my complaint is!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhO4K_yFhh8

On a more serious note, thanks for all your suggestions everyone

Lots to work on...

This is low-level advice from a low-level player, but it was helpful to me. LP players can't make that much spin with the pips unless you give it to them. If you have trouble reading the amount of spin and want to play with less, you can serve no spin to their pips. You will get approximately no spin back. Assuming you are comfortable looping or hitting no spin (depending on the depth and height he sends back) you should be able to attack with good success. This is particularly true if you are not always sure just how much spin you got on any particular serve of your own. If you serve no spin you know that's what it is.

In the long run and at higher levels this will not fly, and the advice from der-echte and NL will be the only way. But if you want to win now at ~usatt 1400 the no spin approach can be effective against some LPers.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

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BRS,

That is not low level advice and we are not high level players and you are not a low level player (I find both you and Ringer hilarious).

The thing is that you can serve anything into pips as long as you can read the return. The problem with serving no spin all the time is that unless the pips player flat out sucks, they can.get better at returning it. The same with serving backspin or topspin all the time. The problem with serving sidespin and why it is discouraged is that the LP returns can break in ways that can be hard to track, but if you can track them, by all means, serve them.

But if you have a good backspin/nospin combo, that is the best place to start. And even the occasional deceptive topspin or heavy topspin can bring pop-ups for outright kills or points. Serving no spin is a base strategy for all loopers, but as you get better, or as your opponent's get better, serving nospinay not get it done. Or it might. It depends on the opposition.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

thanks for everyone's input

for what it's worth, this is the first match vs Neil that I ever won... after winning this I thought to myself, wow, I know how to play against long pips now! (how wrong was I.....) in all honesty I don't even remember what was happening during the match... it was one of those times where all the shots were landing and I didn't have to think--which is usually how I play vs inverted. Unfortunately I still am not quite there yet versus junk players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSz9y4G ... e=youtu.be


The second time I ever beat him was being down 0-2 and managing to get 3 games, unfortunately not recorded.

i have to admit it is frustrating playing vs him but it is fun.

IF he EJs, he could always have used something that was less disturbing than usual against you. Higher rated players, it is best to be their friends and talk to them about what they are trying to do so you educate yourself a little on their equipment or daily goals and how it impacts their game. We have one such guy in our club. I used to play him all the time when I first go to the club and it was a long time before I actually beat him. I had to learn how to forehand smash, then forehand loop (my backhand could already loop and smash). But I only started beating him very easily when my serve game became consistently deceptive. Before that, it was still annoying - I would win, I would win easily, but I had to rely on my third ball or my flat game more than I would like. He would play me sometimes with long pips on both sides and I could crush him with that even when I was 1400 because I knew I controlled the spin 100%. It was until I was 1700 that I started beating him consistently. And he can beat 2000+ players who don't adapt.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

he's an EJ madman, specializing in pips, blades, and inverted (in that order)

So whenever you play him, if you don't already, go look at his equipment and ask him cute questions about what the pips do and what he is working on to soften him up and make him want to teach you stuff. And then you play him and try to swiss cheese him with heavy topspin or no spin balls.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

To add to the attack no-spin Presidential Debate...

ONE of several ways (and NL laid out a few) is to go at it with 1/2 everything. 1/2 graze, 1/2 solid contact, 1/2 lift, 1/2 power. Your objectives are:

- Land ball safe
- Land ball DEEP within 6 inches of endline
- Land ball with heavy spin

Such a ball can be tricky to attack and might win you point outright, if not... Then this opens up a lot of next ball chances for you on attack. It will also develop your timing, so that later, when you have a consistently good position and recognize the no spin ball coming halflong or long, then you can attack more aggressively.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

alright, here're my latest matches with Dr. Neubauer himself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn1FkUH ... e=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd3V0n5 ... e=youtu.be


while I am happy I was able to win the first match, after he switched equipment I was back on the back-foot and could not adjust well to the change in timing in the second match after he had an inverted rubber on one side instead of both sides being pips

yesterday I lost to a pseudo-blocker that I haven't lost to in a long while--plays both sides inverted but plays a very touchy feely game, I usually just hit the ball really hard but I tried to really emphasize spinning with placement and I was adjusting my grip a little differently than I normally do favoring a more backhand oriented grip on the forehand side, but in the end when I started to lose I went back to playing at a high gear and ended up missing everything anyways forgetting about spin and all of the above... missed a lot of high pop ups either clipped off the table or hit into the net... overall disappointed with progress since it seems like I just can't learn to not make easy mistakes. it always feel like I make one step forward and then two steps back

on the bright side... my computer is finally up and running so I should be able to start editing the new camcorders video

Will watch the matches later, aerial, but regarding the blocker you lost to:

1. Not every blocker struggles with the same thing - some struggle with pace more and some struggle with spin more and some just struggle with extremes of power ( speed or spin or lack of either or both or lack of both). So it's quite possible that your change in game played to his strengths. Sometimes, it is better to blast the blocker out of the building.

2. The thing about consistently spinning the ball is that you are trying to get an easy ball to put away or create more trouble with so your placement and spin is at a premium. One of the mistakes some lower rated spinners make is to spin and get an easy ball (high ball, slow weak etc.) and then loop that softly again to the middle of the table and let the blocker re-set.

In the end, you need to experiment to broaden your understanding of TT so don't let match results that don't occur in tournaments get you down or you will not use your practice time to learn anything.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

True Dat NL, I would add that developing a strong heavy underspin serve short, so that when you pull out the carpet for the no spin, you get a more manageable ball to blast for power or wrong foot opponent. Having the ability to do that on your serve places a lot of pressure on opponent and reduces the player's anxiety. It is so much easier to hit a strong shot for a winner (on 3rd ball) when opponent knows they just messed up and no matter what they do, they leave one corner open for a winner.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

aerial,

What's your strategy for playing him? I don't see any clear point patterns that you are aiming for. It seems like you don't think you can win and are hoping he misses. You serve and are surprised when he hits the ball, that kind of thing. You serve backspin, he hits with his pips and you aren't set to play over the ball. Then you still back up and let the ball drop vs a player with very little offense. I don't get it.

If you need to learn to counterhit and block, learn to do so. Play pips players at the table. Crowd the table. Keep your racket high and be ready to hit/ spin topspin. Backspin is slow so you have time to push or loop. Learn to loop over the ball at the table. Your forehand at the table and over the table needs to get better and your backhand away from the table needs to get better. Have someone feed you low half long topspin and backspin balls so you can get used to looping balls that are over the table on your forehand side. Practice dropping the ball off the table and looping it onto the table with your backhand so you can get an idea of how a backhand loop away from the table becomes like a tennis stroke. Look at the backhand topspin like a boss video if you don't know what is required for the stroke.

I think both changes will improve your overall technique and your understanding of it. You take too much time to prepare your forehand and sometimes too little to prepare your backhand. The points around 6:40-7:00 is the kind of thing you are looking for. Surface doesn't matter - stop playing tennis, play table tennis.

Part of the issue is serve return but part of it is that you feel the need to backup before your opponent has done anything to put you there. Spend a month winning and losing points AT the table. Wear shoes that don't let you move. You will learn a lot.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus