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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 15:39 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Why the pips out?
Iskandar


Because the inverted rubbers haven't arrived yet. ;) :lol:

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New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
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See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 15:49 
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well time to dominate the games with them acrylic bladessssss

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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 15:56 
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kim biceps wrote:
well time to dominate the games with them acrylic bladessssss

Only two reasons that I wouldn't use an acrylic blade in a match:
1. It's against the rules. :D
2. The blade I made was so flexible that you couldn't hit the ball where you wanted if you hit it with any pace! It would bend a good 10-15 degrees on a smash!

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New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 16:03 
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i know its against the rules haha. i remembered there was a guitar made of acrylic before , for the same size it is way heavier than wood, i didn't know it flex easily though, i think the guitar brand was ampeg. hm interesting u wold say that it flex that way. Anyways slice and dice, 5+2 with acrylic seems like a feasible idea.

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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 16:10 
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kim biceps wrote:
i remembered there was a guitar made of acrylic before , for the same size it is way heavier than wood, i didn't know it flex easily though, i think the guitar brand was ampeg. hm interesting u wold say that it flex that way. Anyways slice and dice, 5+2 with acrylic seems like a feasible idea.

Dan Armstrong series?
Anyway, yes, I think an acrylic layer would work brilliantly.

_________________
New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 16:11 
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Yeah that one!! haha classic guitar that no one uses anymore

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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 16:52 
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Blade: GiantDragon Kris2
FH: Reactor Corbor
BH: Yasaka Anti Power
How the first three blades play:
Blade 1 (~3.3mm thick), FH: Friendship RITC 563 (OX), BH: Yinhe Neptune (OX). Mass (with rubbers): 97 grams.
It feels VERY slow - probably due to the high flex. The plywood doesn't feel overly hard, but the thin blade seems to have a rather distinct sweet spot - quite small. If you drop the ball on the blade (with or without rubbers) within about 10mm of the edge, it will just sit on the blade, and won't bounce at all! :lol: The large flex and slow speed makes it feel very hard to attack consistently, (though I realise that the OX pips don't help that!), but even considering the rubbers being used, it feels very slow. The small sweet spot makes it rather hard to hit with any topspin. Along with that, blocks feel very hard to pull off, as the passive blocks don't seem to give any pace back to the ball, and it just drops into the net. Be that as it may, chopping actually doesn't feel too bad. A guy at my club (who is much better than me, may I add) said that he would consider using it in a very easy match, as the short game felt quite controllable to him. I, however, wouldn't, as I'm not skilled enough to hit the ball in that small sweet spot every time, and it simply doesn't have the power for attacking and/or lobbing. I'm not entirely convinced about the control in the short game, as it sometimes seems to just absorb the little power that you are working with, and the ball just seems to drop.


Blade 2 (~6.6mm thick - two Blade 1s stuck together) FH: Friendship 802 (1.5mm), BH: Palio CK531A (~0.5mm). Mass (with rubbers): Approximately 170 grams from memory.
Considerably faster than Blade 2, I would rate it overall as about an ALL (VERY rough guide). In relation to a standard blade, it is still fairly flexible, I would say. Feels very controllable in all aspects of the game - though I haven't really tried lobbing with it. Pushes are nice, chops feel excellent and crisp. Drives are really nice, and work well with the SP. Feels WAY faster than blade 1, most likely due to the flex (as the thickness is the only difference between the two blades). I haven't any comments from anyone else on this blade as of yet, but I would definitely lend or give one of these to a beginner or non-player, if it wasn't for my temporary construction techniques (i.e. handles being taped on with masking tape) :lol:. Blocks feel controllable, and the sweet spot appears to be significantly larger than blade 1.


Acrylic blade (~3mm thick) FH: Friendship 802 (1.5mm), BH: Dr Neubauer Super Block (OX). Mass (with rubbers): About 130g from memory - could be a bit above or below, though.
First note: It feels very hard, and incredibly flexible! Despite this flex, it feels just a tiny bit faster than Blade 2. Chopping isn't too bad - it feels nice and controllable on chops, but has a better ability to place short balls than Blade 2 - likely due to the higher flex. Blocks are simply awesome - if you grip the bat loosely, you can absorb a lot of the incoming power, with the assistance of the flex, but if you grip it tight, the hardness will give you a nice fast block going back across the table - works great with Super Block (shame 'tis banned), but also feels nice with the SP; almost lets you loop, except for the fact that I had SP on the forehand - I'm sure it could be done easily with inverted. So, what are the drawbacks? The crazy flex gives a pretty funny, and nasty feeling on drives. The blade bends so much that, when you swing it quickly, it changes the angle that the racket makes so greatly that it's actually hard to hit the ball where you want it go! I haven't tried lobbing with it, but I get the feeling that the high flex would cause more and more problems the further away from the table you get. Serves, however, are quite nice - good control (even if a little slow on slow balls, serve or otherwise), but good spin. I will probably put an acrylic layer in a future blade or two - I get the feeling that it would be great for blockers.

Hopefully that sheds a bit of light on what I've found so far, and makes for an interesting read.

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New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 18:01 
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Great experiment Musicfreak0! Sounds like multiple plies is the way to go, even though the material is very hard.

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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 18:09 
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haggisv wrote:
Great experiment Musicfreak0! Sounds like multiple plies is the way to go, even though the material is very hard.

Thanks, haggisv. I'd say the acrylic just needs some other material to stiffen it up - otherwise it's quite fast. The flex is just too much to handle, though.

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New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


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PostPosted: 29 Aug 2016, 18:24 
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My plan regarding ideal mass:
See thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30132

The experiment itself:

Title: Does the mass of a table tennis racket significantly affect the power of it?

Introduction: There are many opinions on the perfect mass for a table tennis racket, so that the most power can be obtained through the strokes. Of course, lighter rackets will be easier to move, but if you get a larger mass moving, then there is more kinetic energy. Many people feel that the balance (from handle to tip, and from side to side, i.e. between rubbers) is more important than the mass. This experiment (using both quantitative (measuring velocity and energy) and qualitative (collecting data from people's opinions online)), aims to help find the best blade mass for different playstyles of table tennis.

Aim: To assist in finding the optimum mass for a table tennis racket to generate the most power.

Hypothesis: A consensus online is the heavier the racket you can control, the more power is available. So, the heavier the better (within reason), as the mass will not have a large impact on swing speed.

Apparatus:
Rackets of different masses
1 slow-motion camera
Scales (both visual and to measure blade mass)
Logger Pro and/or Video Physics

Method:
(Kinetic energy = 1/2 mv^2)
1. Weigh racket.
2. Start filming.
3. Swing racket on a flat forehand stroke (repeat 5 times).
4. Cease filming. Start another film.
5. Swing racket on a flat backhand stroke (repeat 5 times).
6. Cease filming.
7. Calculate velocity in Logger Pro or Video Physics.
8. Use this to calculate kinetic energy.
9. Repeat for all rackets.


Results:
Racket 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Mass 168.0g 152.4g 178.6g 166.4 183.8g 169.8g 179.9g
Velocity 1 105km/h
2 74km/h
3 120km/h
4
5
Average:
Kinetic:
Energy:

Discussion:
The human error seems too large for consistent results.
This suggests that the mass has little effect on power, and has a larger effect on control.

Conclusion: From this, it appears that mass does not have a significant influence on the kinetic energy in a racket swing; as the inconsistency of the human swing is greater than the influence that the mass has. It does, however, affect the feel, and therefore, control.

------

In a not-so-scientific summary:
Notice how I only have three results? I recorded my swing for each racket, but after calculating three results, I quickly saw that the difference in swing speed speed was simply too large to get clear results. Sure, I could average them out, but with a margin of error that large, it didn't seem as though there would be any point.
What can we learn from this?
Well, firstly, that I have a really inconsistent swing! But seriously, it appears that, while mass may have an effect on the power available in a stroke, it most likely isn't significant enough to make a difference to many players. The ideal mass does, however, differ between players, and preferences can change from one person to the next.
What does this mean I need to do when making my blades?
It means I don't have to worry too much about how heavy my blades are, because, as you can see from the thread, there are massive differences in personal preferences for how heavy the bat should be, and a large degree of that is customisable in the rubbers you choose to put on the blade. So long as my blades aren't ridiculously heavy, then the mass shouldn't be much of a problem. If, however, I made a blade for match use, the mass would be something I take into account, but the mass would only affect the feel and control, not the speed.

EDIT: Just noticed that the formatting for the table isn't too clear... sorry about that! Luckily, it isn't a large table and only has a few relevant results.

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New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


Last edited by Musicfreak0 on 30 Aug 2016, 14:10, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2016, 14:08 
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Here are the rest of my variables (the tough ones to test)!

Stiffness/Flex tests thread: viewtopic.php?t=30324

Stiffness/Flex is defined by:
• How stiff the blade is; i.e. how much or little it flexes when masses (rubbers) are applied and the racket moves quickly to play a stroke.

Measured by:
• Applying forces (masses?) and measuring how far the blade bends. OR, measuring the mass necessary to cause a certain (measurable) bend.
• Vibration frequency (higher = stiffer)

Affected by:
• Density: higher density = lower flex
• Material:
• Shape - especially thickness: Thinner = more flex
• Grain Direction
Affects:
• Power/speed:
• Spin: More flexible = more spin (longer dwell time)
• Reversal: Stiffer = more reversal (shorter dwell time)
• Control: Player's preference
• Dwell time: More flex = longer dwell

----

Mass/balance is defined by:
• The mass of blade, and total setup (with rubbers).
• Qualitative & quantitative data about the balance (from side to side and handle to tip).

Measured by:
• Scales

Affected by:
• Size: Bigger generally = heavier
• Shape: Shape can determine where the centre of mass lies.
• Density: lower density = lower mass
• Material: Heavy materials will add more mass to the blade than lighter ones.

Affects:
• Speed/Power: More mass = more kinetic energy IF the racket moves at the same speed as a lighter racket. However, a lighter blade will mean more speed is available, which has more influence on power (from kinetic energy = 1/2mv2)
• Spin: A heavy blade will make quick brushing movements difficult.
• Control: Some players prefer heavier rackets, some prefer lighter.

----

Dwell Time is defined by:
• The time the ball spends in contact with the racket (typically measured with a rubber).

• The time the ball spends in contact with the rubber on a stroke.
Measured by:
• High-speed camera (slow-mo @ 1000fps)

Affected by:
• Flex: More flex = longer dwell time
• Hardness: Softer = more dwell time

Affects:
• Spin: longer dwell time = more spin

----

Hardness/Softness is defined by:
• Level of indentation when a constant force is applied.

Measured by:
• Janka/Rockwell or similar hardness test
• Or screwdriver dropped from constant height or similar?
• Manufacturer ratings

Affects:
• Power/Speed: harder = more power
• Dwell time: softer = more dwell time = more spin
• Spin: (see above)

_________________
New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


Last edited by Musicfreak0 on 01 Nov 2016, 12:43, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2016, 14:19 
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One point about the blade mass is that even though the effect of mass may not make much of a difference to the ball speed directly, a lighter blade you can swing faster, which becomes even more important when it's a wrist-type stroke, where 10g may be significant.
EDIT: Oops I just noticed you already mentioned this in your 2nd post. :oops:

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


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PostPosted: 30 Aug 2016, 14:28 
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haggisv wrote:
One point about the blade mass is that even though the effect of mass may not make much of a difference to the ball speed directly, a lighter blade you can swing faster, which becomes even more important when it's a wrist-type stroke, where 10g may be significant.
EDIT: Oops I just noticed you already mentioned this in your 2nd post. :oops:


:D Nevertheless, you raise a good point: the center of mass is something that also has an effect on the control and speed of a blade, and is something that should definitely be measured and compared.

_________________
New Setup: Giant Dragon Kris II, Reactor Corbor, Yasaka Anti Power

Backup 1: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial (Blue Sponge, no. 22), Yasaka Anti Power
Backup 2: Yinhe N-9, DHS Hurricane 3 Neo, Butterfly Super Anti
Self-proclaimed only unofficial spin doctor of OOAK. Call me Joe or musicfreak :rock:
The author of How Spin Works. The Official How Spin Works Thread. How Spin Works goes to India!
See my 3D Printed/Laser Cut blade experiment blog.


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PostPosted: 02 Sep 2016, 03:12 
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Musicfreak0 wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
Why the pips out?
Iskandar


Because the inverted rubbers haven't arrived yet. ;) :lol:


Hmmm... Send $20 to these folk and get four sheets of rubber in about three weeks:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/RITC-729 ... 13352.html

No muss, no fuss. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 02 Sep 2016, 03:50 
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Blade: Barwell Fleet
FH: Adidas p5 max
BH: Joola Rhyzm max
One way to eliminate human error, probably let robo pong hit the bat stationery? Just a suggestion

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