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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2018, 22:43 
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Keep up the good work.Are you playing in the leagues?


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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2018, 19:29 
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peterpong wrote:
Keep up the good work.Are you playing in the leagues?


Not yet but I was planning to join 3 leagues in September. Was hoping to improve enough to play in premier divisions but I have a feeling I might not make it to that standard in this time. I don't want to play there and just lose 70% of matches lol. and right now (especially after last nights session) I would probably only win about 1 or 2 matches if I was lucky. I would need to do multiball sessions once a week and get a decent training in also (which is difficult) along with 1 night of matches. I will try my best to do this but I don't always get a chance to play more than twice a week.

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PostPosted: 05 Mar 2018, 19:51 
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So last night I played with 2 people. The first was with someone I played with 4 or 5 times within my first 3 months back (I started again in July 2017), and when we played a match he would win easily and I believe in like 10 matches I only managed to get 1 or 2 sets! That is 1 or 2 sets in like 30 ;(

He WAS a division 3 player (Premier, 2, 3, 4) but was clearly too good to be there. He has been playing very regularly every week and has improved a lot since then and plays up for division 2 regularly and does fairly well. Right now I would consider him an average (perhaps 40%) division 2 player as his short game lets him down compared to his open and loop game otherwise he would be better than average.
We knocked for a bit but was struggling against my chop, could not lift it with his BH unless the chop was more float and for some reason didn't want to regularly turn to his FH lol. When we played match I let him serve the entire time and I won very comfortably around 11-5 in points each time.

Now onto the 2nd...The coach I chopped with on my YouTube. This time he had improved and clearly getting more of his skills back, his loops were of a much higher standard, loaded with spin and fast. It even took me a while to adjust when blocking! When we got to the loop to chop practise we agreed he would kill the ball if it was high/possible and he would loop with intent to win point. He was destroying me tbh, I was finding it very difficult to get more than 2 chops on. But after 10-15mins I relaxed a bit more and my chops got better and the rallies got better. I really tried to turn diagonal and swing from my ears but a lot of the time because his loops were powerful I found myself not having a lot of time to react and I did not do both of these things half the time :headbang:

I think I would need at least 6months with good 3hr training or multiball sessions at least once a week in order to get this down against these calibre of players. Before he was a strong premier division player and his loops last night showed me I am not ready yet for that.

All in All a nice wake up call

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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2018, 08:22 
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New vid on my YouTube




I can definitely see the slight improvement just from watching my video back and knowing what I need to focus on for the next time. The FH is a lot easier than the BH Chop :oops: and i plan to focus even more to get my FH technique as perfect as can be next session (in practise). and by that i mean where the only thing left to do for a stronger shot is to simply increase the pace of the entire stroke. Fingers crossed!

Tell me what you guys think

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PostPosted: 17 Mar 2018, 05:37 
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Hey guys I'm sorry I haven't posted for a while, I haven't had a chance to play much at all and the 2 times I did I played terrible. I am moving home and had busy shifts at work and just couldn't focus at all, very frustrated.

I did video some FHs in my last training sesh, maybe I can upload it and post but tbh I am just not happy with it at all. The good thing is I think it improved a little but still not perfect how I wanted it :headbang:

I think I really need to bite the bullet and start playing a lot of matches on certain days as I can feel I am so lost sometimes as if I haven't found my identity.
A recent post from Dunc on his blog has given me a lot to think about now.

Will keep people up to date. If you wanna see the recent FH vid let me know and I will upload and post it here. It's about 1 and half minutes.

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PostPosted: 21 Mar 2018, 05:15 
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Ndragon wrote:
Lorre wrote:
I didn't know Chen Weixing trained at your local club. ;) Keep up the good work! :up:

What do you mean with gaining energy?
And did your training partner also use LP?


Yeah he uses the Butterfly Matsushita with FL2 1.1mm.

I think I was just very relaxed in the drill because I knew where the ball is coming and the chop felt nice and chill because it flows so nice so i felt like I was gaining energy rather than losing it. I believe I got a bit lazy though :lol:

I need to keep my FH swing long all the time too, noticed I only half swing sometimes :^)

can't wait for next training session now so I can do these things :oops:



Hey!
I thought he's using butterfly defence II?

I am defender too and I hope I could help you a little bit
Sorry for my english

1. BH chop is quite well but try put you elbow higher when you make chop. It gives you more much more controll.
Just watch the position of elbow of Korea Seo Hyowon or Chinese Wu Yang. It is almost on shoulder level. When my coach
tell me about it and I try it I was impresed how increese controll
2. When you choping try to take ball little bit lower. For this you need to have strong legs
3. FH attack is slow. You need to move better with your upper body

That's what I saw


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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 08:28 
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sirius13phobos wrote:

Hey!
I thought he's using butterfly defence II?

I am defender too and I hope I could help you a little bit
Sorry for my english

1. BH chop is quite well but try put you elbow higher when you make chop. It gives you more much more controll.
Just watch the position of elbow of Korea Seo Hyowon or Chinese Wu Yang. It is almost on shoulder level. When my coach
tell me about it and I try it I was impresed how increese controll
2. When you choping try to take ball little bit lower. For this you need to have strong legs
3. FH attack is slow. You need to move better with your upper body

That's what I saw


1. That's actually an interesting way to think about it. I usually only think about raising my bat or hand high enough. Perhaps thinking about the elbow might make it easier.

2. Yeah it's always nice to be able to take it from hip or just below hip height but we aren't always in position to do so (distance wise). And a couple of choppers at my club already told me not to worry about that too much. You take it depending on where your distance is.

3. Can you elaborate a bit more. The FH is something I have been trying to work on slowly slowly so I'll take all the tips and tweaks someone can give. It's improved a fair bit since that video though. Hopefully I can get a new video.

Thanks for the tips :up:

Btw he is using the Butterfly Matsushita Pro.

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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 20:01 
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If you're chopping from nearer to the table, you need to be quicker at getting your bat in the correct position - that may be one of the difficulties you're encountering. If you have less time before the incoming ball reaches your bat, you need to be almost starting your swing as the ball comes over the net.

Your forehand technique is improving but for me the contact is still too flat. If you want to attack as a chopper, a significant number of the balls you'll be attacking will be pushes - often with reasonable amounts of backspin on (after your opponent has pushed your chop). With your technique on that latest video, I don't think you'd be too effective at that. Keep focusing on spin spin spin - make sure you can play a properly slow, spinny, consistent loop to change the pace of the game but also work on the lower spin, faster loop which is similar-ish to the technique you're developing.

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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2018, 20:30 
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dunc wrote:
If you're chopping from nearer to the table, you need to be quicker at getting your bat in the correct position - that may be one of the difficulties you're encountering. If you have less time before the incoming ball reaches your bat, you need to be almost starting your swing as the ball comes over the net.

Your forehand technique is improving but for me the contact is still too flat. If you want to attack as a chopper, a significant number of the balls you'll be attacking will be pushes - often with reasonable amounts of backspin on (after your opponent has pushed your chop). With your technique on that latest video, I don't think you'd be too effective at that. Keep focusing on spin spin spin - make sure you can play a properly slow, spinny, consistent loop to change the pace of the game but also work on the lower spin, faster loop which is similar-ish to the technique you're developing.


I wouldn't say I'm having difficulty with the chopping near the table. I was just using an example to reply. But yeah you're right it's usually down to not being quick enough.

Your FH comment is right and something I only just picked up on few days ago after watching an old video of myself where I don't try to follow someone else's robotic technique. I played yesterday after a little break and I actually played so well and was able to open up from back spin so much better. I played against someone I only played once before and he slapped me around but this time was quite the opposite. I'll try to make a new video on Sunday or something and see what you think then

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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2018, 23:47 
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So 2 days ago on Thursday night I had my first ever coaching. It was a session with 5 of us and I had about 20mins 1 on 1 with multiball. They are called Urban Spin based in UK but I believe came from Hungary. The coach doing the session was very patient but instant with his corrections it was great to see and feel what it's like to know when you're doing something wrong and how to correct. He changed my FH loop instantly after not even 3 strokes lol. Everything about my FH was wrong and he showed me how and in those 10-15mins after my loops were so much more spinny it kissed the net and rattled like a snake.

He also corrected my chop but only slightly.

I played again last night but I couldn't quite be sure if I was always doing it correctly but it's definitely better than before but in match play I still revert back to my other technique and it hurt my soul every time :rofl:

On Sunday I'm gonna bring my bucket of balls and train with Keith again and record it all.

The next time I get a Thursday off work I'm gonna do the coaching class again but film my multiball so I can see what it looks like so I can at least semi correct myself if ever I'm on my own

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2018, 21:21 
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So last night I played with a practised with a bucket of balls with the young guy who I play with sometimes. I don't know if it was because I was exhuasted or what but I really felt like I played so bad. We done a lot of drills which quickly lead to playing the point out and honestly I feel my BH lost way more points than it won. I should note I have been using the VKM since Friday as I felt I couldn't control the JSH when doing the drills with the higher lvl partners.
But yeah back to the BH....it just wasn't working for me last night and even when I did chop it seemed like there was hardly any spin and I could see it sometimes if I hit the net or missed the table there was very little spin.
My FH loop was pretty good but the opening spin against backspin was absolutely horrendous as my timing was so off. When it was on time it was good but generally couldn't get my timing so I stopped the drill early and gave up attacking altogether lol.
Then we done a drill where he would serve and I push long and we play point....I got so annoyed with my making way too many unforced errors and mistakes I put the bat down and decided to get my other bat out....(bad idea right?)

Stiga ALL Classic with Dtecs OX....I shouldn't have done this as somehow somewhere something clicked and my BH was on fire, my chops were spinny (probably because of the reversal), close to the table bumps much better and more dangerous, very consistent very calm very relaxed. Everything just worked. Even when receiving dead balls or less spin, I was able to chop them back and saw better results.

and now.....I am here banging my head :headbang: because I don't know what to do or think about this and I can't play until the weekend :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2018, 21:57 
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Two separate issues here:

Firstly, with regards to the drills... it happens. Any kind of drill in any sport (or other activity) gets repetitive after a while. I don't think many people enjoy sustained drilling. I kinda do, but even I get bored after a while - bored, and tired!

If you're feeling that way on any given occasion, my recommendation would be to say to yourself/your partner - "I'm going to do 20 of this drill CORRECTLY, then we'll do something more fun". Put a bit of pressure on yourself, little bit of self-competition, and also a "deadline" to reach. Then, once you've done that specific drill, either have some fun matches ("focused" matches are great - e.g. "forehand side of the table only", "no short serves" or "I'll only chop" etc) or just do some "loop to loop" or "lob to smash". My regular practice partner and I do the latter regularly - we'll do a couple of drills each then just lash forehands at each other for 10 minutes, or one of us will retrieve/chop and the other will smash/loop. This makes things fun and helps to refocus.

This feeds in to my second point. You've only been more successful with the new bat because your psychological approach has changed. The DTecS in OX will not, in any way, help you against float balls. It might offer more backspin on low-spin chops because of its reversal BUT if this is the case then you need to work on your chopping technique.

An OX rubber with good reversal will only generate more backspin than sponged FLII (presuming this is what you were using) if you're not generating enough spin yourself - if you're not getting enough dwell time on your chops. Having seen your early videos, this would definitely have been the case then, so perhaps you just need to look again at your technique?

It's a lot harder, in many ways, to chop with sponge. You need a bigger swing with much more dwell time. OX rubbers often allow you a more passive stroke because even the smallest of contacts will achieve reasonable backspin if the incoming ball has some topspin on it.

Stick with it - OX isn't highly recommended if you want to play to a higher standard as a true classical/modern defender.

As an aside, a really important point to make - something that I still massively, massive struggle with - is that a chop with low spin on it is not the end of the world. When I watch some of the best veteran defenders in the UK, I'd say a significant portion of their chops are low-spin, borderline float. However, if you get that ball long enough and low enough, it's STILL hard for your opponent to smash past you. They'll STILL likely have to actually loop it. The higher up you get the less this proves true BUT the higher up you get, the more spin you'll get on the incoming ball anyway. Against those floaty players, you HAVE to remain patient and keep working on relentlessly putting the ball back long - preferably to their weaker side. Don't let low spin put you off - I spent years desperately swapping between LP and SP to achieve more spin on my chops and in the long run all it has done is made me an impatient defender, which is really harmful to that style of play.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2018, 22:17 
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dunc wrote:
Two separate issues here:

Firstly, with regards to the drills... it happens. Any kind of drill in any sport (or other activity) gets repetitive after a while. I don't think many people enjoy sustained drilling. I kinda do, but even I get bored after a while - bored, and tired!

If you're feeling that way on any given occasion, my recommendation would be to say to yourself/your partner - "I'm going to do 20 of this drill CORRECTLY, then we'll do something more fun". Put a bit of pressure on yourself, little bit of self-competition, and also a "deadline" to reach. Then, once you've done that specific drill, either have some fun matches ("focused" matches are great - e.g. "forehand side of the table only", "no short serves" or "I'll only chop" etc) or just do some "loop to loop" or "lob to smash". My regular practice partner and I do the latter regularly - we'll do a couple of drills each then just lash forehands at each other for 10 minutes, or one of us will retrieve/chop and the other will smash/loop. This makes things fun and helps to refocus.

This feeds in to my second point. You've only been more successful with the new bat because your psychological approach has changed. The DTecS in OX will not, in any way, help you against float balls. It might offer more backspin on low-spin chops because of its reversal BUT if this is the case then you need to work on your chopping technique.

An OX rubber with good reversal will only generate more backspin than sponged FLII (presuming this is what you were using) if you're not generating enough spin yourself - if you're not getting enough dwell time on your chops. Having seen your early videos, this would definitely have been the case then, so perhaps you just need to look again at your technique?

It's a lot harder, in many ways, to chop with sponge. You need a bigger swing with much more dwell time. OX rubbers often allow you a more passive stroke because even the smallest of contacts will achieve reasonable backspin if the incoming ball has some topspin on it.

Stick with it - OX isn't highly recommended if you want to play to a higher standard as a true classical/modern defender.

As an aside, a really important point to make - something that I still massively, massive struggle with - is that a chop with low spin on it is not the end of the world. When I watch some of the best veteran defenders in the UK, I'd say a significant portion of their chops are low-spin, borderline float. However, if you get that ball long enough and low enough, it's STILL hard for your opponent to smash past you. They'll STILL likely have to actually loop it. The higher up you get the less this proves true BUT the higher up you get, the more spin you'll get on the incoming ball anyway. Against those floaty players, you HAVE to remain patient and keep working on relentlessly putting the ball back long - preferably to their weaker side. Don't let low spin put you off - I spent years desperately swapping between LP and SP to achieve more spin on my chops and in the long run all it has done is made me an impatient defender, which is really harmful to that style of play.


I will take your first point into account, I didn't get bored doing the drills we were doing as it's what the coach made me do on Thursday so I was motivated to do it. Tired...probably lol. I was quite knackered.

Sorry if I said I created more backspin against the float what I meant was a more difficult ball for opponent.

tbh, I have been feeling a bit negative for a while now for a couple of reasons.
I have only found 2 people good to practise with who are consistent enough to actually get some rallies. So I feel most practise ends up not being too productive. Another reason is that when I play matches I can see and feel my BH is not too spinny and I know its my technique but somehow I just can't do the correct one more than 50% of the time in a match.

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2018, 22:32 
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I will take your comment about a chop not needing to be spinny as long as its low and long and put it on a note on my phone as a reminder.

Recently my chops are not spinny most of the time and not low and long enough either which gives free points to opponents. Or i hit the net/miss the table. Perhaps I am not relaxed enough.

With regards to the Dtecs, it's not the first time I tried this bat, actually the last time I used it (before deciding to stick with FL2) I found it the easiest to chop with, perhaps because its almost frictionless so you don't need to concentrate as much on opponents spin but I felt so relaxed when playing with it and last night I felt the same except this time I was better

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PostPosted: 26 Mar 2018, 23:07 
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Ndragon wrote:
tbh, I have been feeling a bit negative for a while now for a couple of reasons.
I have only found 2 people good to practise with who are consistent enough to actually get some rallies. So I feel most practise ends up not being too productive. Another reason is that when I play matches I can see and feel my BH is not too spinny and I know its my technique but somehow I just can't do the correct one more than 50% of the time in a match.

There's not much you can do about practice partners, short of finding other clubs to travel to. That's the biggest hindrance with my progress for definite. I have other clubs nearby but with work/baby restrictions they're just not accessible for me at the moment.

As for your technique... just gotta keep practising. THIS is what drills are for. Groove your stroke. Try to do some irregular drills where you're out of position too as this will give you much more realistic match-like practice. Only when your body is entirely used to the stroke will you be able to pull it off in the tense environment that is matchplay.

Ndragon wrote:
Recently my chops are not spinny most of the time and not low and long enough either which gives free points to opponents. Or i hit the net/miss the table. Perhaps I am not relaxed enough.

This will likely be one of two things: either the incoming ball isn't very spinny (and, as previously discussed, you're not getting enough dwell time to generate your own spin) or you're getting some spin on your chops but you're putting them too high/too short. No matter how much spin you're putting on the ball (and you can only put a *lot* of backspin on a chop if the incoming spin is heavy to begin with), if you put it a couple of feet above the net and only a foot past it, your opponent will be able to slap the ball with very little skill and you'll find it almost impossible to return.

The answer is, don't worry too much about "padding" the ball back - just get it long. Sometimes players overthink chops, and a floaty long chop will encourage them to try to properly loop it as if it were heavy backspin, usually leading to hoying the ball a few metres off the end of the table.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


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