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PostPosted: 14 Mar 2017, 19:05 
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He's using a bent elbow most of the time. I suppose you could make a case that the forearm also acts as a whip when the elbow is brought to a stop and it continues to swing.. To be honest pretty much all high level players I've seen in videos use a whip action for forehand drives of some sort, even if it's not exactly like Ma Long's. The idea is to rely less on your biceps and shoulder muscles to get the racket speed and to rely more on the whip mechanics. Makes for less effort and potential for injury as well as more spin and speed.

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PostPosted: 24 Mar 2017, 01:52 
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I've sort of been trying to implement this in my games on weekends. I can actually do the whip-forehand loop drive receiving long serves (in doubles, where you know more or less where the serve's going to go, and the people I play with aren't good enough to consistently serve short). In other situations I'm concentrating on not executing the backswing too early, even on short topspin drives or quasi-blocks. For the most part, it has improved my game, even though the first day I tried it it was a disaster - my timing was off completely and I kept missing balls. The pre-session warmup really helps calibrate the timing. Now to internalize it so it becomes second nature - so easy to forget to keep doing it!

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 15:32 
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ETTS part 39 is available on ttEDGE.com

ttEDGE members send me backhand topspin footage and I've noticed a common mistake that many are still making. For some, this will just be a good reminder.

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2017, 23:16 
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Some progress in learning the straighter arm loop. Main takeaway so far: looping with straighter arm requires taking the ball much further from the body. To the point that if feels very uncomfortable and makes me think that I am going to miss the ball with my racket. Many thanks to Brett for his videos and help.



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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 00:06 
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Definitely some progress. Would encourage you to practice more against block and with less movement and to learn to make the pattern both smaller and larger so it can be adapted to the speed of the incoming ball.

But the stroke looks a lot like mine, if I may be so modest. The plane may need more vertical than mine but maybe that's just because I adapt to the ball better with more experience.

Backswing closer to your body, it will help with a lot of things including stroke size, defending the elbow and transitioning between forehand and backhand.

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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 01:11 
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I practice quite a lot against blocks as well, but the biggest problem is that I tend to take the ball too close to the body and get cramped. Especially when the ball comes to my middle after I played a wide forehand: I need to take a big jump to the left to maintain the correct distance to the ball. However, my brain is used to taking the ball closer and makes my legs jump only a little. I have the same issue for pivot forehand, only worse. My legs are also not strong enough to make those large jumps. So there are many things to work on.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 01:26 
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fastmover wrote:
I practice quite a lot against blocks as well, but the biggest problem is that I tend to take the ball too close to the body and get cramped. Especially when the ball comes to my middle after I played a wide forehand: I need to take a big jump to the left to maintain the correct distance to the ball. However, my brain is used to taking the ball closer and makes my legs jump only a little. I have the same issue for pivot forehand, only worse. My legs are also not strong enough to make those large jumps. So there are many things to work on.


Even top players don't always get out of the way of the ball when surprised and every technique over time requires some fail safes in case you can't play the perfect shot. You are a tall guy with a big middle, if you try to make all the adjustments with your footwork with a stroke this size, you will need to play further and further back from the table. Best to be able to rotate and lean and changet stroke size in addition to being able to move on demand. In any case, it is important to know how good you want to be and what the technical limitations of what you are doing are.

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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 01:45 
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Yeah, that is all true.

> it is important to know how good you want to be

All I want is to overpower those pesky blockers I meet at tournaments all the time :D


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 06:59 
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I agree that there is a lot of progress.

Check out the picture below. Fastmover's arm is near straight and horizontal at the point of impact. The Chinese and Koreans have won a lot of Olympic gold medals using a similar contact point.

NL is correct in saying that arm length must be somewhat dynamic etc. In general though, getting away from the ball on the forehand will improve your shot.

I have a lot to say about the footwork timing in Fastmover's video. Moving before swinging can't possibly optimal training. Knowing the speed and direction of the ball in advance can be a serious problem unless you learn to wait for the right time to move and swing. This counts for both strokes and footwork. I've taken some footage and I'm working on some LTT videos to demonstrate these points.

Attachment:
Fastmover4.JPG
Fastmover4.JPG [ 57.02 KiB | Viewed 453 times ]

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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 12:02 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
I agree that there is a lot of progress.

Check out the picture below. Fastmover's arm is near straight and horizontal at the point of impact. The Chinese and Koreans have won a lot of Olympic gold medals using a similar contact point.



Cool, now it is time to replicate this shot at least in my regular training.

Brett Clarke wrote:

I have a lot to say about the footwork timing in Fastmover's video. Moving before swinging can't possibly optimal training. Knowing the speed and direction of the ball in advance can be a serious problem unless you learn to wait for the right time to move and swing. This counts for both strokes and footwork. I've taken some footage and I'm working on some LTT videos to demonstrate these points.



Note that this is a very specific case and I wittingly move well before the ball comes. The reason is that the swing is new for me and it is hard to time it yet keeping it intact (i.e. straight arm). The reason why I added the movement is to get a sense of the correct distance to the ball while playing from different points relative to the table. I don't know if it is a right strategy to learn, probably not :) It is also difficult to move right to the ball when playing with the robot since the ball appears out of nowhere fast. On Thursday I will try to film my regular practice playing against blocks which is much more realistic.


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PostPosted: 29 Mar 2017, 22:54 
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I find in general though that people find stroke development boring and need to layer something else onto it to keep them involved. My students would rather kill the ball or move and hit the ball than to take their time to understand the nuances of their swings through trial and error with the basic swing.

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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 07:17 
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NextLevel wrote:
I find in general though that people find stroke development boring and need to layer something else onto it to keep them involved. My students would rather kill the ball or move and hit the ball than to take their time to understand the nuances of their swings through trial and error with the basic swing.


Ask those players to show you the footwork from LTT42 and see how they go. 99% of players don't know how to move correctly to make slightly wider balls and it's a serious process to teach them. The last thing you want is to be teaching the stroke and footwork concurrently.

Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVFj0TG59k . There is absolutely no chance of using this side step footwork (falkenburg) in a match as you won't know where the ball is going whilst moving relatively long distances. The player in the video is clearly moving before the ball is even fired and the ball speed is much slower than game speed. LTT42 would be your only real option and you'd still be scrabbling like a hamster. When you pivot (forehand from backhand side), you have no idea where the next ball is going. You'd also hit the pivot shot hard. The rebound speed and randomness of the return would require you to use cross footwork to get to the wide forehand. Same with the pivot unless you anticipated very early and took a risk moving around the corner. You'd be praying that the opponent doesn't decide to go down-the-line to your forehand and totally embarrass you.

Training the wrong footwork and timing in set drills is a serious problem. Knowledge of where the ball is going allows you to use bad footwork and wrong time whilst assuming you are on the right track.

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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 23:21 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Knowing the speed and direction of the ball in advance can be a serious problem unless you learn to wait for the right time to move and swing. This counts for both strokes and footwork. I've taken some footage and I'm working on some LTT videos to demonstrate these points.


So static drills aren't very good. Are there drills for moving properly when my shot has somewhat controlled the return placement? For example when I hit a ball to my opponent's wide forehand I often fail to cover the wider angle I just gave him. I find myself saying "Where did you think the ball was going?" too much.


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PostPosted: 30 Mar 2017, 23:26 
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BRS wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
Knowing the speed and direction of the ball in advance can be a serious problem unless you learn to wait for the right time to move and swing. This counts for both strokes and footwork. I've taken some footage and I'm working on some LTT videos to demonstrate these points.


So static drills aren't very good. Are there drills for moving properly when my shot has somewhat controlled the return placement? For example when I hit a ball to my opponent's wide forehand I often fail to cover the wider angle I just gave him. I find myself saying "Where did you think the ball was going?" too much.


I think you are supposed to recover towards the angle that is bisected by your shot. Not perfect when playing better players but that's the theory.

I think I need this kind of recovery more in my game but not sure how to build it. Also wondering if coordination ladder drills are what I need. My movement for short and small adjustments probably needs more work than my larger movements.

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PostPosted: 31 Mar 2017, 01:59 
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My brain knows that theory, but my body doesn't get the message. And I don't do any specific drill for it, so inprovement is slow to nil. It's probably not costing me enough points to justify taking practice time away from other stuff. But any error that causes me to lose a point where I had control is that much more irritating.


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