OOAK Table Tennis Forum

You must love it when Hank blocks for you, lol.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

That is why I called it my pet peeve...

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast

I made This point earlier, but it is easy to miss. Most people who topspin block at the lower levels don't put enough topspin on the ball for topspin to do anything good to the ball.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Topspin block is probably not the right term for what Brett is talking about. I had.never really paid attention to this before, but I warmed up with a 1500 from my club before a tournament last weekend, and he couldn't block down the line. He kept lifting with his entire forearm like a bar. The only topspin on his block was the slight reaction of my loop off his rubber. If he had been applying his own topspin and landing balls down the line that would have been great. And he wouldn't be 1500 for long.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

It is exactly the right term, IMHO, though it may not convey the right understanding to some. Upward motion is what creates topspin. The paddle is just not closed enough. But even when it is, it is just as risky as counterlooping off the bounce but without the same level of spin.

The lifting motion is because people think the topspin is a good thing. In general though, many people lift all their strokes if they started as non-inverted basement players or lacked racket head speed to play forward and over the ball close to the table.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

So anyone going to nationals?

After practicing pivots the way they are in LTT42, I made an observation. I realised that sometimes I use pretty much the same footwork without even practicing it. I happens when the ball suddenly comes to my elbow and I choose to play a forehand. I make a step to the left, and then lunge at the same time playing the shot on the move. It feels natural and I was never taught this movement (I was never formally taught cross-step as well). So the proper pivot is essentially the same movement except that I have to turn my right foot outwards. So pivot footwork is quite natural. I also believe that I used to pivot like that a few years ago, but then for some reason adopted the "walk around the corner" move.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast

I belatedly realized that LTT20, 21 and 48 do exist and have plenty of tips I'm yet to absorb fully. Back to the basics - but looking forward to LTT72 anyway.

_________________
USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Thanks to those who replied to some of my questions, but no-one attempted to answer the main one about the reversing affect of a flat block. So I'll ask it another way:
It seems to me that if the incoming topspin of a loop is high enough, it will be impossible to block successfully because the spin will tend to "reverse" as in be returned with backspin and therefore float off the end of the table. Therefore it seems necessary to put some topspin on the block, but Brett and others seem to be saying the opposite. You can make such a dead block work if you have a loose grip and pull the bat backwards, but you shouldn't have to be that passive/defensive and that's not what they are recommending.

I am not sure what you are trying to say but maybe I don't understand what happens when the ball hits an inverted rubber on a blade. I don't understand what it means to have a ball hit a closed inverted paddle and go back with backspin. Even in the heaviest loops, blocking flat with a fairly closed paddle returns topspin. Punching the ball may have a deader or backspin effect but the ball is still usually light topspin unless the paddle was really open or the ball chopped in some way, which usually produces float but not backspin.

But in any case, the issue for me is that is the topspin you had in a block actually making the ball dip? Topspin blocking is not the same as looping where you are adding heavy topspin to the ball to make it dip violently on the table.

The only safety argument for adding topspin to a block is that the arc on the ball gives the ball a longer distance to travel. And in my opinion, if you want to take advantage of this, sidespin blocks are often more consistent options, though they can mess up your opponent as well. But if you could take the pace off the ball and block flat, that is almost always more reliable than the above as a quality block as it is easier to control, though that said, some people get consistent enough for the level they play at with high arcing blocks. But the trade-off is that their blocking is riskier because the plane in which their paddle as to move to get contact.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yes blocking a heavy top spin returns a little top spin back, but not enough to dip the ball really. One other factor is just how rigid your blocking paddle is. Your wrist, arm, type of rubber, type of blade all play into these. One thing you can do is relax your body and make the spin and speed a little easier to handle.

However, I will admit when I cranked my old robot to 11 and had max spin I could not keep that thing on the table. The speed and spin was just too much to handle. I've not experienced a human do this. I mean at a certain speed(high velocity) the ball will literally rip through the paddle - you can find youtube videos of this. None of them by humans.

On a side note: I learned that I'm okayish at blocking on the forehand side but complete garbage on the backhand side! In truth I don't see a lot of top spin...glad I found some guys to work with today that can. I don't lift on either side. My mind was focused on this thread while blocking today

I don't know whether there is literally backspin, but against heavy topspin it feels like there is enough reversal to cause the floating off the end of the table. I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
To further confuse ... my club gets visited by a current national top ten who, I think, recommends topspin blocking, and a former national champion who favours dead or punch blocking ...

It is not about what you favor. If you do not know how to block flat, there are many loops you cannot consistently block, it is that simple. You will be a terrible coach and practice partner for lots of people. If you can block flat, and again, blocking flat does nor mean that the ball is literally flat, it just means you are not adding motion in the vertical plane or spin to the ball, then you will be a great practice partner and understand how to avoid lifting balls off the end of the table. It will feed your close to the table topspin game.

Brett didn't say he has never lost to someone who blocks with topspin during the match, he said he has never done so to someone who does it during the warm-up. People who can't block flat are missing a fundamental table tennis skill.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I think you're confused. If the ball comes back with backspin, that's spin 'continuation' which will cause the ball to dive into the net. If the ball comes back with topspin, that's spin 'reversal' and the ball will fly off the end of the table.

Having said that, most people put varying amounts of side spin to their loops so in order to flat block successfully, you also need to open/close the angle of your racket. Keep adjusting your racket along the horizontal or perpendicular plane (sometimes both) and you will eventually find the correct angles that will return the ball consistently. Some loopers will increase/decrease the speed and/or spin with each stroke so you may need to continually adjust your angles. If you find your blocks have too much arc and/or flying off the end of the table, close the angles. If your blocks are diving into the net, open the angles.

I'm not confused and either are you (about the mechanics), it's the terminology that's confusing. The word "reversal" sounds like it means the spin on the ball changes direction, but from the balls point of view it stays the same i.e. no reversal. But when the ball changes direction 180 degrees (by bouncing off a bat) a rotation that acted as topspin to player A, becomes backspin to player B.