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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 16:44 
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fastmover wrote:
BTW, what is up with the panel/meeting? I think it makes sense to do it on a weekend, either this or next one.



I'm ready. The problem is, you are the only one who has shown interest on being on the panel.

Fastmover, please suggest a time and let's see who can make it? I'm almost ready to just interview Heming myself and upload the recording to ttEDGE.com

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 16:57 
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fastmover wrote:
There is one thing that is on my mind often. A particular challenge in table tennis is that there are so many shots to practice, and each of them takes enormous time to build up. Service, topspin attacking shots on both sides, pushes, flicks, all against different kinds of balls. At the same time most of amateurs do not have enough time to practice all of it. So it probably makes sense to limit the amount of shots one uses in the game for the sake of their quality, and somehow mask the weakness resulting from the absence of the other shots.

For example, I have a reasonable banana flick. My forehand flick is not good at all and I don't have any touch when playing this shot. At the same time I don't really need it. If I receive, I will wait for a half-long or even long ball and get it quite often at my level. If someone will try to throw me off balance by serving some junk spin short to my forehand, I can step around and play banana and hope to win the point outright. I am not fast enough to recover back in the position, but that is fine. The only situation when I really need the forehand flick is when I serve short and get an attackable short push to my FH. This time I have no time to play backhand and is forced to play forehand flick. However, these situations are rare (though they do happen). So probably it makes sense to give up on this shot and concentrate my effort on fixing the unfixable forehand loop and footwork around it.

What do you think?


Your post makes a lot of sense. There isn't enough time to become an expert at every shot, especially when you are only training once or twice per week. Top players have the same dilemma, to a lesser extent.

A player like Heming won't spend a lot of time on forehand flicking. His focus is on short pushing (forehand) and banana flick (backhand) and that's it for returning serve. Sure, he has other shots, but they aren't getting attention. Heming would also spend zero time on lobbing and chopping. This should be obvious.

So the club player needs to understand their game. You need to have a clear picture of how you want to beat the majority of your opponents. It means you need to improve your weapons. You also need to understand what is preventing you from winning against a wide range of players and then improve those weaknesses.

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 17:03 
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BRS wrote:
I think NL used to say that the need for shots will find you when the time is right (I'm paraphrasing obviously). Until then, what good is a fh flick you never use?


There is a lot of truth in this NL quote.

If you are playing <700, then spending hours mastering the short push is a joke. No one is every going to serve shot to you, so just train your forehand loop more until you are destroying the opposition. Then you'll need to add stuff to your game.

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 17:16 
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wilkinru wrote:
A little video...Various shots from a practice match today.

I just used my 4 year old phone sitting on a pair of shoes on top of a backpack thus sorry for the video quality.

In the end I think lateral movement to my right is a pretty big issue. Followed up by my backhand timing, still too early.

Always up for suggestions.

At the time of this post it's still uploading. Ill edit it tomorrow for the "in forum look".

Video: https://youtu.be/ZzZWd-ab-vg


wilkinru emailed me this video and I've commented privately. I really like the way Russ has gone about improving. He has a commitment to just trying to do the right things and I can see the benefits.

For starters, compare Russ' technique to his opponent's. Russ looks like someone mostly doing the right things and his opponent is poking at the ball with incorrect body form. Now, no disrespect to Russ' opponent btw. There are millions of players doing the same and worse. My point is that this is the environment where Russ plays his table tennis and it would make perfect sense for him to have no clue. Russ however is able to make a bunch of beautiful loops etc and I think it needs to be said.

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2018, 17:59 
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wilkinru wrote:
A little video...Various shots from a practice match today.

My two bobs' worth: I love the commentary!


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 13:58 
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Ok, what about
Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
BTW, what is up with the panel/meeting? I think it makes sense to do it on a weekend, either this or next one.



I'm ready. The problem is, you are the only one who has shown interest on being on the panel.

Fastmover, please suggest a time and let's see who can make it? I'm almost ready to just interview Heming myself and upload the recording to ttEDGE.com


What about this one:

Philadelphia (USA - Pennsylvania) Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 9:00:00 pm EDT UTC-4 hours
Melbourne (Australia - Victoria) Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 11:00:00 am AEST UTC+10 hours

Other slots possible slots: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ ... 198&p2=152


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 15:20 
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fastmover wrote:
Ok, what about
Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
BTW, what is up with the panel/meeting? I think it makes sense to do it on a weekend, either this or next one.



I'm ready. The problem is, you are the only one who has shown interest on being on the panel.

Fastmover, please suggest a time and let's see who can make it? I'm almost ready to just interview Heming myself and upload the recording to ttEDGE.com


What about this one:

Philadelphia (USA - Pennsylvania) Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 9:00:00 pm EDT UTC-4 hours
Melbourne (Australia - Victoria) Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 11:00:00 am AEST UTC+10 hours

Other slots possible slots: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?
iso=20180624&p1=198&p2=152


Okay, done!

If anyone wants to sit in and ask questions, let me know. Otherwise, fastmover and I will ask all the questions and I'll record it and post the best parts on ttEDGE.com.

I'm currently in Laos at the moment, so Heming and I need to do some testing to make sure my internet speed is going to be sufficient.

NL, BRS, wilkinru, freeagent, Barfly, elbowed, maurice101 and others who are frequently involved, do you want to join in?

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 19:54 
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Unfortunately, I wont be available for the meeting so I will just post a question here in advance:

I am interested in advantages/disadvantages of various serves and serve placement for setting up third ball attack, especially for setting up forehand attack.

Also, what made backhand serve go out of vogue and rarely seen on top level (and also on ttedge- much less content given to backhand serve compared to pendulum/reverse/punch). Would developing backhand serve still be an important part of amateur arsenal since you can serve it from ready position and cut recovery time and complications that come with it ?

Thanks and looking forward to your discussion, great idea!


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 20:16 
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As with Barfly, I can't be available live, but look forward to seeing the result.

My main query for possible discussion, which I'm sure others must have: How can one make LTT98 work in matches/under pressure. I have a fossilised FH loop that consists mostly of upward arm movement with little involvement of the body. (Sound familiar? I first tried to loop in 1970, and am trying to change now, so no surprise about the fossils!) Am getting reasonable results in practice/training sessions, but that seems to go out the window in matches, especially when having to move quickly to the right to play the shot.

A second query: Is there some way to train placement? I seem to focus entirely on executing the shot, rather than placement. Sub-optimal approach, to put it mildly. I see many players with shots that aren't great, but who play well via placement, and seem to have that extra fraction of a second to consider where the ball is going to go, rather than just worrying about the act of hitting it. Is it because they stand back a bit further, or is it that their major focus is on getting the ball ON the table, where they want it to go, rather than shot execution?


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2018, 23:11 
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I can't make the live session, but have a question or three in case they fit into the conversation.

How does Heming use his match and practice video to improve? What does he look for?

What are the three or four most important things to find out when scouting a new opponent?

What is his experience with changing a bad technique habit? What was it? How long did it take? What percentage of his training time did he devote to changing the bad technique?


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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 00:00 
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wilkinru wrote:
A little video...Various shots from a practice match today.

I just used my 4 year old phone sitting on a pair of shoes on top of a backpack thus sorry for the video quality.

In the end I think lateral movement to my right is a pretty big issue. Followed up by my backhand timing, still too early.

Always up for suggestions.

At the time of this post it's still uploading. Ill edit it tomorrow for the "in forum look".

Video: https://youtu.be/ZzZWd-ab-vg


--------------

This is the sort of stuff that makes me want to quit TT sometimes.
Some freeze frames. What in the world has happened to my backhand finish position? Trying to shorten the finish has resulted in some stupidity.
Attachment:
backhand1.png

Attachment:
backhand2.png

Attachment:
backhand3.png


Oh my.


Your strokes look really good. What I would recommend is for you go keep the spiral/circular orientation of your loops tighter. It will help you maintain a consistent spin and pace and recovery. Right now you often release the ball quickly and have to continue to react at a fast pace when you could make the ball travel a little slower or at a more consistent tempo to your opponent and give yourself (and to some degree then as well) time to react. Ultimately, it becomes a consistency battle but I think improving your consistency is along the lines of what you are looking for in TT generally.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 00:07 
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I should be able to make it. Please send me an invite. I don't think the timing is optimal for those people in Europe as it is late at night for them but I guess in the globalist present, no time is perfect. Sometime like 11pm Austalian time would probably be ideal as that means it is 11am in the US and then the afternoon in Europe on a Saturday.

Just need an invite to make sure I don't miss it. My life has been going thru all sorts of changes (mostly work and marriage related) so I haven't had the time or health to even play. But I suspect at some point I will get back into coaching again I just need to get enough distance from playing that I don't feel compelled to compete.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 01:49 
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Sorry, the Laos internet test failed. Can you believe it??? Heming was freezing on my screen so we will need to change the time. I'll be in Thailand in 2 days, so we can test again from there. I'll let everyone know the new time, providing the internet works.

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 01:55 
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NextLevel wrote:
I should be able to make it. Please send me an invite. I don't think the timing is optimal for those people in Europe as it is late at night for them but I guess in the globalist present, no time is perfect. Sometime like 11pm Austalian time would probably be ideal as that means it is 11am in the US and then the afternoon in Europe on a Saturday.

Just need an invite to make sure I don't miss it. My life has been going thru all sorts of changes (mostly work and marriage related) so I haven't had the time or health to even play. But I suspect at some point I will get back into coaching again I just need to get enough distance from playing that I don't feel compelled to compete.


Thanks for the time suggestion NL. I think we should shoot for next Saturday. The most important thing is the interview will be recorded and posted on ttEDGE meaning it's not a big deal if people miss it in real time.

It sounds like you've had some big events since we were in Philly. Best of luck with everything!

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PostPosted: 24 Jun 2018, 02:00 
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BRS wrote:
I can't make the live session, but have a question or three in case they fit into the conversation.

How does Heming use his match and practice video to improve? What does he look for?

What are the three or four most important things to find out when scouting a new opponent?

What is his experience with changing a bad technique habit? What was it? How long did it take? What percentage of his training time did he devote to changing the bad technique?


Thanks Ben. If anyone else has questions, please feel free to post here.

If all goes well with Heming, I'll try to get Dave Powell too. I promised an interview with him and we never got it done. The first half of 2018 has been one of the busiest periods of my life and a lot of things didn't get done.

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