OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Yeah where I play we do not have a rating system so it's difficult for me to have a reference point.

Have you met/played any German players? Know somebody else who did? Since you are in Europe, chances are you've run into at least a couple of them . Ask their TTR, pretty much every German player has it in my experience. That should give you a reference point to compare to veterans you mentioned above.

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Ah... Just watched up to the third game in the match. Pesotska doesn't seem to have a commanding opening loop, so she ends up pushing a lot (which is how the match ended up in expedite). When it was in expedite she STILL didn't start attacking more, even when she was serving, she'd push a lot. Li turns out to have a stronger attack than she did, and it was probably a matter of too many loose pushes.

Iskandar

Yes, but Pesotska still managed to win the first two games, despite her technical shortcomings: inability to loop against the chops two times in a row.

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Tactics Enthusiast

Come to think of it, Pesotska was forced by the expedite rule to attack sooner rather than continue to push, and ended up making mistakes well before the 13th shot. Before the expedite rule was in effect she could push and wait, she didn't have that luxury after the rule in effect. By the way, Li was ahead by several points in the second game when expedite was called. Pesotska was able to score several points while expedite was in force, mainly by forcing Li into errors, and eventually won that game. So, while in most cases, the expedite rule would favor attackers rather than choppers, in this case the attacker was that strong of an attacker. While it forced both players into attacking more, it worked out better for Li because she was actually the better attacker of the two.

Iskandar

Well, the signature is mostly a joke I have no doubt that improving technique is very important in the long run, I am just trying to find ways to better use the technique that is already there.

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Tactics Enthusiast

Okay, I just watch some of this match and I think it actually proves my point. Pesotska doesn't have great technique against backspin and she is unfortunately forced to try something else.

Against slow chop, you must roll your torso a long way back and around, then up and around (as per LTT99). The straighter arm should act as a whip from the shoulder joint. If Pesotska had this shot, she wouldn't have to resort to "tactics". Instead, she would just destroy the opponent.

In the video below, Ma Long demonstrates how to use the torso in a pretty clear way. When you have a forehand technique like this, you can do whatever you want. All options are now on the table. Watch how the torso works the arm.

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It would be a courageous person who says that Ma Long's swing is too big or too long. Should he just use a small hip movement instead of having this monster size swing? Or does he just let form follow function because of the time he has?

Is it impossible for an adult to move their torso back and around this way? Is it impossible for Pesotska, or does she just need to learn the technique? If she did learn the technique, what would she do to this chopper. If she could download and install Ma Long's forehand technique, what tactics would she use against the chopper.

Everyone is capable of getting better in my opinion. It doesn't matter if you are Henzell, Pesotska or an adult learner reading this post. I'm not saying that everyone can hit the ball as well as Ma Long, but you can head in that direction.

Resorting to pushing tactics because you can't learn a correct forehand is unacceptable to me. Learn to spin your torso and find your forehand.

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Would Pesotska win if she had a TT edge shirt on?

I actually enjoy hitting vs choppers because you can just go max forehand and destroy the ball with spin or speed, depending on the ball. This one guy at the club requires me to do so for about 20 minutes every weekend because he can't find anyone to spin it quite like me.

For you, the optimal strategy at 1600 would still depend on your personal range of shots. You have a naturally looping game and I doubt that pushing and blocking would immediately work for you. You'd have to work a lot on coordinating LTT81 & 82 type stuff before it become strong enough to beat everyone at 1600. I do however believe that pushing and blocking is the most effective strategy <2000 or so, providing you have solid pushing and blocking technique. Looping is generally more fragile.

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I have to get you a ttEDGE shirt asap! I was in Australia last night and forgot to look for one as I was rummaging through my bags. Now I've left and I'm concerned about the consequences.

I have this strange urge to come to Vegas and give you a few TT lessons.

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Most of the time, I've found that if someone plays 2500+ in the warm up, then they are exactly that. There would be massive holes in someone who plays <2000

I hear your point about adults struggling to make 2200. I think this would be especially true in the US, Canada, Australia and less true in Europe and Asia. Isolation issues are much more common in large countries which don't have a great TT culture.

Whatever the case actually is, I don't really care. There is still a range of correct ways to play backhand and forehand, so I'll keep chipping away at it. I've seen people improve.

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PTTP05 is now available on ttEDGE.com

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Brett despises tactics. And 95% of the time I agree. Today I played five hours at this club in Arlington Virginia. My first match was vs a 1600ish guy. I destroyed him. My last match was vs a 2200+ guy. He destroyed me. Tactics mattered not at all in either of those matches.

In between I played a guy I have seen plenty but never played before. We are both around 1950ish. He has a monster fh. It's by far his best shot. My fh is my best shot also, my backhand sucks. But his backhand sucks at a whole other level below mine. So I tried to play for bh-bh rallies instead of setting up my fh as much as I usually do. It went five sets and the scores were 14-12, 11-9, 9-11, 12-14, 13-11. 116 points and I won 59-57. When opponents are that close that two points out of 116 is the difference, then I think tactics matter. When the outcome is so marginal, everything matters. That doesn't happen very often. But it's a hell of a lot nicer to win those matches than lose them.

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I totally agree with your post. If someone has a bad backhand then you need to play lots of balls there. If someone can't return your backspin serve, then it's bad to serve all topspin. If someone can't flick and keeps popping up your topspin serve, then you need to serve all topspin.

What I can't stomach is someone playing 1500 and looking for tactics to beat everyone. This player needs to learn how to play a proper backhand, forehand and serve. It's impossible to play 1500 and have a good backhand, forehand and serve.

I bench coach quite a bit for Heming Hu. He's ranked 120 in the world so it's a bit of a responsibility. I would literally never talk to him about technique before or during a match. That would be incredibly stupid and incompetent. We obviously talk about tactics during a match. But, more importantly, I try to get him playing his own game.

Here's the type of stuff I may say to him after the first game.
- You need to serve more straight backspin to stop him from banana flicking.
- You need to 3rd ball attack to the middle more
- You need to banana flick to the middle.
- Return short and get in with your topspin game
- He's serving long and you need to loop it
- After he plays a forehand, get the ball into his backhand
- Spin the first ball heavy and take the pace off it.

The list goes on an on. What I'd never say is "spin your torso down and around" etc. Anyone who talks about technique between sets is incompetent.

But I did just send the Ma Long against chop video to him with some instructional stuff attached. Everyone needs to increase their range.

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