OOAK Table Tennis Forum

LOL You know everybody! I should have known.

If anyone who doesn't know every player on the US east coast has any feedback, I'd love to hear it.

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Close match, each of you do things well. He's athletic and is comfortable from deeper in the court. I have trouble with these types too.

First off very very nice point at 8:47. You also did extremely well with the short pushes to your forehand side that he returned. Won a lot of points in those exchanges and even more points when he tried to put it there where he made errors. I think he could have won much more easily if he pushed deep to your backhand. However 2 sides to that coin...

In game 1 I don't think you were actually warmed up and the technique seemed to improve some time in the middle of game 2.

I just saw one thing that changed the direction of the games: when he served deep to your backhand things did not go well in general. You did adjust and put in some good shots around game 4 and early 5 - to where he went more to the middle and had you lean for that backhand. I also think he got real comfortable in game 3 where he tried other things.

What I would do differently next time: Get the backhand warmed up against deep balls and maybe even move back a bit to get more time. I noticed he did not like to pivot so when you returned to the middle, even when a little high, he did not attack very hard. I'd also go for more table on the backhand (3:52 good example). Going to his forehand with your backhand seemed to create a lot of errors. Maybe try the middle. Little changes like this can make tough losses become reasonable wins but these are just tactical changes that in the end isn't really the goal of this thread.

Watching the 3:52 point again - that's a pivot for me. I think if you give low backspin serves that do not create angles to your backhand then use the forehand over and over with that good slow spin that was highly effective here.

I have a question for you: how would you have felt if you won 11-8 in game 5 instead of losing there? It's totally reasonable that it could have happened. A net here a edge there a block or 2 errors by him.

I'm not sure if I'd feel any different winning or losing by such margins these days. What I think about is: how am I going to beat this guy 11-3, 11-5, 11-6? I would feel considerably different doing that.

Before my body became a huge husk, I used to be on the list of most active tournament players in the US every year for about 3 years. You have to have played for less than a year or two for me not to know you.

Back to our regularly scheduled program...

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

When I watched the match, I didn't even see your opponent. I just watched what you were doing with your body. The reason I do this when people send me videos is, in the long run, if you are making technical errors, you won't improve much. Tactics aren't of great interest to me when someone is messing up shots. This topic has been debated for hundreds of posts, so let's not do it again. Everyone has said their thing. If someone doesn't agree, please just know you are right and move on.

Ben, you have improved. I haven't seen you play for a while and you are more solid now.

I'm loving your serving. You have a near professional action and it really has unlimited potential. Keep folding hard (LTT96), regardless of whether you are serving backspin or no spin.

The coordination of your backhand topspin (the one where you roll against push with the pips) is wrong. I should find a nicer way to say it, but I know you are a direct guy. You need to bend down (hips back) when the ball is first on it's way and come up on the forward swing (hips forward, chest up). Your arm is working against your body and it's costing you tonnes of points. There is no good in talking tactics when the shot isn't there. When the shot is there, then I'm thrilled to have the tactics conversation. The shot cost you 2 out of the first 4 points of the match, just for starters. You hit one semi correct one in the 2:13 point.

Your forehand it looking good. Perhaps there isn't enough forward hip rotation, but it's a fine shot. Sometimes it's more like a jump than a hip clap (upcoming LTT108), but it's not what is costing you lots of points. I like your forehand topspin and I believe it could take you to 2200.

Your backhand hit is borderline. Sometimes it's slightly coordinated, sometimes it's not. It's costing you a lot of points, imo. I don't care if you use pips or rubber, this shot must be more clearly defined. This shot cost you a lot of points and I believe it's a technical thing. Count how many backhands you missed outright in the match.

On your forehand block, you have to twist your hips to stabilize your arm. Atm, you just push with your arm and it's not going to be good enough at higher levels. It only cost you a few points in this match because your game is reasonably well organized. It will cost you a lot of points against a 2300 player.

I believe your slight technical flaws dwarf any tactical issues you may be thinking about. I see the forest, not the trees.

All said, I'm impressed with your progress and I would love to see you get to 2200 level over the next few years.

Here's a few videos for you to consider.

This is me practicing my 2 step blocking. I think you need some of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg5Zry95gew

Here's ETTS50 (again) which explains the 2 steps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUc1kvHqdjg Here's me trying to coordinate the steps like Randy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Tp41K_UHAA

This is me trying to bend down and forward on the backswing as the coach hits the ball and then up and out on the forward swing. I'm talking about the opening loop against backspin which is probably your biggest issue at this stage. https://youtu.be/qFf8pqSH27Q?t=58

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I knew this was coming

Shaping your game to maximize a strength, tactics or something else?

The more I thought about BRS's match...the forehand is really solid and reliable. I'd like to have that myself and I'd be using the tomahawk serve all day to get forehands.

His opponent has a bad backhand. It would get exposed at a higher level.

Randy in ETTS50 probably plays at 1000-1300 points lower than Ben's opponent, but he has a good backhand.

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This is so true!

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Ben generally plays correct table tennis.

He serves and then plays an opening loop. If someone pushes long, he loops it. If someone blocks, he punches (with pips) or loops. He's generally doing the right things. That really is enough.

Whether he should play to this guys backhand or forehand etc, it's okay to be thinking about during the match. If the guy has a good forehand, play to his backhand. We all do it. I'm not saying he shouldn't try to work the guy out a bit. Everyone in Thailand has a good backhand so, I try to loop everything to the forehand. They play loose, so I play tight.

But to think that Ben's problem is that he didn't play enough to the BH, FH or whatever is completely overlooking the real issues. I've mention what I believe are the issues are in the above post. Imo, Ben need to go back to the "lab" and work on stuff. I'm hoping he improves his overall game.

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I played a guy I estimate to be 2500-2600. In the next match he won 3-0 against a highly ranked 22 year old who is certainly 2600. Then the 22 year old played the current no.1 in Thailand (2700+) and almost won. He was up 2-0.

I later took the original guy I played (2500-2600) to dinner and he told me he started playing when he was in university as an adult. Does he count as an adult learner who made a high level?

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Yes, he does count somewhat - it would be really cool if he started at 40, though.

Does almost everyone speak English there, or are you also reasonably fluent in Thai?

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Yeah, it's not exactly the same as starting in your 30s or 40s.

I don't speak any Thai whatsoever. It's completely possible to get around by just using English. It's not perfect, but you can make it happen.

Are you tempted Peter? It wouldn't be the worst thing you could do. There are literally hundreds (maybe thousands) of players >2000 and they will play you. There's a Canadian guy who plays about 1100 and he always seems to find someone good to play against. You'll have no trouble finding people at your level.

I'll point you in the right direction if you ever want to take action.

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Btw, I'm going to make a video about chopping mechanics. It might be a while away, but I've already filmed it. I've had to advise a few choppers over the last couple of years, so I've thought a lot about technical theory.

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In 2010, I coached at an international training camp where J P Gatien (93 World Singles Champion) was Head Coach.

We talking a fair bit about training and then we got onto the topic of his backhand. He said that his backhand was so bad and no one ever showed him how to play a correct backhand. For 3-4 day, we talk about his backhand a little more than we should have.

Gatien often had a 1 step backhand, especially on the block. He would just lean forward into the ball with his hips back. Some call it reaching. He learned to cover it up by pushing short or playing counter topspin with his forehand. His forehand was strong and his footwork was the best.

The moral of the story is...even a World Champion can have unresolved issues when there is a lack of good information.

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Only if he told you the truth.

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Tactics Enthusiast

Yeah, I thought about that too. I tend to believe people because I personally never lie about my own TT and don't see a reason to do so. I started when I was 9 or 10. Does that make me better or worse?

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