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PostPosted: 21 May 2019, 19:45 
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fastmover wrote:
I got a chance to train a bit, so here are some videos.

Backhand loop:


Random blocking:



The body movement on your backhand is the best. I teach exactly that movement to some much better players than you. The shot looks really good.

You need a bit better arm structure on your backhand block. Can someone please reply and post my drawing of fastmover with the backhand "C" position? I can't find it on this computer. Also, you need to rotate slightly on your forehand block.

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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 02:56 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
LTT116 is now available on ttEDGE.com It highlights one of the most common mistakes in tt, all the way up to elite level. If I had this knowledge when I played, I'd have been better for sure.

If you've been following the LTT series, 116 should be obvious. For the vast majority of standard club players, this lesson is critical.


Why is this more of a problem going from fh to bh, do you think? You have to get back down after playing any shot vs backspin don't you? Is it more common not to do that going fh to by than bh - fh, fh-fh, or bh - bh?

If so, is it bc most (right-handed) people are rubbish at moving to their left?

More off topic, it's amazing that William could swing over the top of the ball after dropping his bat below the table. Do you consider that a technical flaw, dropping the bat when the incoming ball will be a block or counterloop? Or do you think it isn't important?

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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 12:17 
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fastmover wrote:
I got a chance to train a bit, so here are some videos.


I saw this yesterday but didn't have the time to reply. I'm liking your backhand a lot. Looks really smooth with great usage of the body!

The blocking looked slightly off to me. My initial thought when I saw it yesterday was that you needed a little more of a backswing. Just a little more. For the forehand block, that would mean a little more body rotation. For the backhand block, that would mean bringing your forearm a little closer to your body so you can gently block the ball forward. Having that soft touch forward movement really helps with control from my experience. Maybe with TT-edge's body usage in mind, that might mean a little bit more of a bow. Just a little more.


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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 12:22 
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BRS wrote:
More off topic, it's amazing that William could swing over the top of the ball after dropping his bat below the table. Do you consider that a technical flaw, dropping the bat when the incoming ball will be a block or counterloop? Or do you think it isn't important?


I see this a lot in top players. Even against topspin or any balls really, if they're going for a counterloop or anything more aggressive with spin, their racket drops much lower than the incoming ball. The thing is, they always manage to still hit the ball from above. I feel for amateur players, the timing and speed needed to make that happen might not be worth it. I hear a lot of people around me say to start the racket high if it's against top spin. But what William and the other top players I see do might also just be a more technically advanced stroke. I'm also curious to see what others think about it.


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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 13:32 
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An example of this.. We've seen this video before. Start around 1:23 - he takes the ball early, on the rise, but for the stroke he starts with the racket way below the contact point. I think that's the secret to the speed he can achieve - aside from hitting the ball fast, he also puts tremendous spin on the ball. It's the spin that makes the ball curve down and hit the table.



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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 19:13 
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Thanks for your comments guys. But more rotation on the forehand block would add more speed to the shout wouldn't it? Or I lead the shot with my arm?

One way I mess up my blocking in matches is hitting a bit too much and missing. I feel like I should put the ball back on the table softly instead. But the sample size is quite small because I block rarely in games, so it is hard to say. Gotta film some matches.

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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 20:52 
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fastmover wrote:
Thanks for your comments guys. But more rotation on the forehand block would add more speed to the shout wouldn't it? Or I lead the shot with my arm?

One way I mess up my blocking in matches is hitting a bit too much and missing. I feel like I should put the ball back on the table softly instead. But the sample size is quite small because I block rarely in games, so it is hard to say. Gotta film some matches.


More rotation on the forehand wouldn't necessarily result in more speed. It would however result in a more stable arm and racket angle. When you currently play your forehand block, the only thing propelling your arm is your arm and shoulder muscles. If you use your body better, you'll use your arm less.

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PostPosted: 22 May 2019, 21:07 
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BRS wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
LTT116 is now available on ttEDGE.com It highlights one of the most common mistakes in tt, all the way up to elite level. If I had this knowledge when I played, I'd have been better for sure.

If you've been following the LTT series, 116 should be obvious. For the vast majority of standard club players, this lesson is critical.


Why is this more of a problem going from fh to bh, do you think? You have to get back down after playing any shot vs backspin don't you? Is it more common not to do that going fh to by than bh - fh, fh-fh, or bh - bh?

If so, is it bc most (right-handed) people are rubbish at moving to their left?

More off topic, it's amazing that William could swing over the top of the ball after dropping his bat below the table. Do you consider that a technical flaw, dropping the bat when the incoming ball will be a block or counterloop? Or do you think it isn't important?


Players are generally better at rotating on their forehand than they are at 2 step bowing on their backhand. So if someone plays a backhand, and then receives a ball to their forehand, they are more likely to twist and get it right. Playing a forehand after a backhand is also challenging, however, I don't think mistakes are quite as common.

You are right about moving towards the backhand. Players are generally bad at it and often, as a result, they don't have time to 2 step bow.

In relation William dropping the racket below the table on the backhand, I believe that form is still following function. I'm cheating a little here because William was the best at playing a backhand after a forehand, so I'm using this fact as a platform for my logic. When you drop the body, the arm/racket should follow. The force of the forward bow drops the racket. Then the force of the body thrust brings the racket up and forward.

You should never drop the racket independently. Randomly dropping the racket is bad.

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 23:02 
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Dan is serving heavy backspin on this screenshot. Is his racket too far away from his body?

Image


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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 23:08 
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ziv wrote:
Dan is serving heavy backspin on this screenshot. Is his racket too far away from his body?

Image


Yes. And he hasn't folded his torso into the ball which amplifies things.

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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 23:13 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
ziv wrote:
Dan is serving heavy backspin on this screenshot. Is his racket too far away from his body?

Image


Yes. And he hasn't folded his torso into the ball which amplifies things.

Yeah. It seems Ma Lin in the video is implementing the serve much better: the racket is close to the body, and he does fold.



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PostPosted: 28 May 2019, 23:46 
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ziv wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
ziv wrote:
Dan is serving heavy backspin on this screenshot. Is his racket too far away from his body?

Image


Yes. And he hasn't folded his torso into the ball which amplifies things.

Yeah. It seems Ma Lin in the video is implementing the serve much better: the racket is close to the body, and he does fold.



Ma Lin's serve is a little better.

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PostPosted: 30 May 2019, 07:19 
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A shame that 20+ hours of training does not instantly make one a much better player. I don't think I got worse, at least.

I've done a few practice matches lately and these are the things that changed directly from the training.

1. Forehands are stronger, especially against easier balls. I'm doing a little more of a pivot (more side on) before the forehands when given time. I'm going long on some balls too but they all tend to have considerably better quality.

2. After all of the drilling balls, attacking against backspin is stronger and more consistent. The backhand still has a lot of work to go but the forehand feels automatic. Bit related to the above topic.

3. Backhand quality has gone up. Consistency has not. Still learning the angles with the new "thumb up" backhand grip. Less capped here.

4. My view of serves being short and long has changed quite a bit. I was already headed in this direction but now I'm even more focused on it. I also notice that I rarely get an actual short ball that should be pushed short, however I have a few times and won a couple of points by pushing back short.
In fact I'm starting to think there are 3 classes of serves:

a. Serves that are short. Gotta get the knee in and tap it back short.
b. Serves that are not that short but may bounce twice on the table. These are troublesome for me. Flick? Push long? These are very difficult to push short for me.
c. Serves that are long and must be attacked aggressively.

5. The moment a lob comes my way I am instantly in thinking mode, trying to do it correctly. I nailed one really solidly into the net today.


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PostPosted: 30 May 2019, 18:06 
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wilkinru wrote:
A shame that 20+ hours of training does not instantly make one a much better player. I don't think I got worse, at least.


Sadly this seems to be how it is. I've had a bit of a rough period lately in general. But I've still been trying to practice as much as possible. Btw, thanks for that FH vid Brett. I'm still working on it.. in matches I tend to lift the ball out often using the new technique. My arm still thinks it's better and wants to get involved. Though it does feel a lot better when I use my body, my arm doesn't get as tired etc.

I need to get into the habit of recording my matches again, I haven't been bothered to set up the camera for practice matches, especially when we sometimes just play 1 set or best of 3. Something is going very wrong right now as I'm losing pretty much every set, to mostly everyone, pretty badly. One reason might be that I'm exhausted after the practices which is when I usually play matches. I tend to have little energy, my receiving is awful and I feel like I'm making all the mistakes, some matches I just have no chance. I'm in need of a break.

My practices on the other hand have gone pretty well, I feel more consistent and can hit the ball harder than ever on both bh and fh. Still lots of improvements that can be made using my body though, I'm never bowing or folding as deep as I think I am.


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PostPosted: 30 May 2019, 20:48 
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Imagine that someone has never played table tennis and they go and downloaded great technique...Matrix style. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YhJxJZOWBw

What would be the outcome? How strong would the player be? The answer is, their rating would probably be lower than USATT 400. Depending on the player's sporting background, the player may not even be able to hit the ball. If someone was 50 years of age and had never tried a ball sport, there's a strong chance they'd miss every single ball on day 1, even though they have "perfect technique".

Perfect Technique - Experience = 0

The above equation sucks because it's expensive. It means that you need to invest in experiences over a long period of time. I personally have 36 years of experience and that's a lot of my life.

Experience - Perfect Technique = Capped (aka Limited Potential)

The above equation sucks because you need proper coaching, which is hard to find. I personally didn't receive the coaching I needed at the age of 10-15.

Russ (wilkinru) is an extremely interesting table table player. He has really good technique, which he has learned from ttEDGE. He has done an excellent job at following instructions and most of his technique is nearing flawless. He is one of the few players I know that doesn't need a lot more "coaching", especially on his forehand topspin.

The thing with Russ is, he's still has a really long road ahead if he is to ever break 2000. In my experience, there are almost no players with Russ' technical understanding that don't play at a very high level. Russ is alone. Russ "knows" more about technique than the average 2500 level player, based on my experience at dealing with players at all levels. Russ can also demonstrate the techniques in training and matches.

Experience is king. A player's experience is everything from how much "catch" he/she played as a kid to how many tt matches he/she has played. Experience is how many forehands you've hit against a range of opponents. Experience is how much sport one played in their youth. Experience is 90% of one's level. Experience can't be taught or bought.

In Florida, I randomly told Russ that he should go to China to train. I was really just talking for the sake of talking, but there was some logic in my madness. If you already know the shots, you need to poor on the practice/experience. Training with a robot or hitting balls with the guys from work probably isn't going to propel you to the next level, regardless of how good your technique is. China sucks for coaching, but it's great for training.

Perfect Technique - Experience = 0
Experience - Perfect Technique = Capped (aka Limited Potential)

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