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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2015, 23:20 
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Brett,

If you watch this video and read the description, it appears this coach is advocating the same thing that you are: 1) a higher contact point and 2) an off center contact point to avoid the axis of rotation.



My question for you, though, revolves around this shot for shorter players. Since you and Nextlevel are quite tall, you are able to maintain an athletic stance with knees bent and forward lean and still contact the ball around shoulder height. If I do this, however, I end hitting the ball around eye height or above and it just doesn't feel comfortable.

So I suppose shorter players are by default forced to take this shot a little earlier, as we cannot maintain an athletic stance and still hit the ball at optimal contact height (shoulder level)? How tall was Wang Tao?


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 00:30 
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as we have seen, you need to take the ball a bit sideways, it will be more easy to counter the topspin. One thing I learn from a chinese coach who has been in the chinese team before, is that you don't need to overpower you shot as the ball has a lot of topspin. Ball placement sideways with a closer racket will do the job.

Also on prior video, players often finish their stroke with shoulders to much to the left. It make much more difficult to come back for the next shot and use to much strenght to come back and you will get tire to hit ball after just few balls. ( for righty) At the start, behind the endline of the table, your position should be about 45 degree angle of your line of direction, your left foot will be pointing toward the table and your right foot near 80-90 degree angle from the endline.

Then your weight should come from the back on your right foot and goes to the left foot and stop there. You should feel the weight pushing down on your left foot almost to the toes. It should create a kind of stop so your stroke doesn't go further then your left foot. It will become more easier to hit a good solid stroke with a more easier come back to a ready position.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 06:31 
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Ringer84 wrote:
Brett,

If you watch this video and read the description, it appears this coach is advocating the same thing that you are: 1) a higher contact point and 2) an off center contact point to avoid the axis of rotation.

My question for you, though, revolves around this shot for shorter players. Since you and Nextlevel are quite tall, you are able to maintain an athletic stance with knees bent and forward lean and still contact the ball around shoulder height. If I do this, however, I end hitting the ball around eye height or above and it just doesn't feel comfortable.

So I suppose shorter players are by default forced to take this shot a little earlier, as we cannot maintain an athletic stance and still hit the ball at optimal contact height (shoulder level)? How tall was Wang Tao?


Hey Ringer, the stroke the student is playing in the video is an option too. He's taking the ball quite early and it's a little shallow, but I've seen a lot of Chinese teach/play this way.

I prefer this stroke though



I'm not sure of Wang Tao's height, but he isn't tall. You can get an idea and watch him take the ball very early in this match here. The first point is an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQTeuwgo4jk

I would suggest that a shorter player should be more inclined to take the ball earlier. As a general rule, you still want to be finishing over your eyes, as per my video in the first post in this thread.

Cheers,
Brett

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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 17:14 
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maddrag wrote:
as we have seen, you need to take the ball a bit sideways, it will be more easy to counter the topspin. One thing I learn from a chinese coach who has been in the chinese team before, is that you don't need to overpower you shot as the ball has a lot of topspin. Ball placement sideways with a closer racket will do the job.

Also on prior video, players often finish their stroke with shoulders to much to the left. It make much more difficult to come back for the next shot and use to much strenght to come back and you will get tire to hit ball after just few balls. ( for righty) At the start, behind the endline of the table, your position should be about 45 degree angle of your line of direction, your left foot will be pointing toward the table and your right foot near 80-90 degree angle from the endline.

Then your weight should come from the back on your right foot and goes to the left foot and stop there. You should feel the weight pushing down on your left foot almost to the toes. It should create a kind of stop so your stroke doesn't go further then your left foot. It will become more easier to hit a good solid stroke with a more easier come back to a ready position.


The number 1 emphasis of high level chinese coaches around here for attacking is always to "go forward" and "put weight on the ball". I thought about this and now see all the small details they teach have that as end goal. It made a lot of sense so what I do now is always try to swing with a good "heft" every time and adjust the stroke for spin or power as required. Before like most people I would hesitate in order to judge the trajectory which result in a lot of soft shots, but now at worse I return heavy slow spin and loopkills come much more naturally.


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2015, 06:04 
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Here is a video of Andy's shadow swing training.


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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2015, 02:23 
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The one thing I will say for Andy is that his shadow training as improved the general waist rotation and body turn and made it feel more natural for him to do while swinging. Even as the stroke being grooved was imperfect, the physical effects on his hip/waist/core/shoulder rotation were great for him.

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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2015, 02:24 
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Duplicate.

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Last edited by NextLevel on 19 Sep 2015, 04:28, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2015, 03:43 
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One of the benefits of this video analysis of my counterloop is that it has enabled me to see that many of my shots that I used to think were shallow actually do get to eye level and that I need to make sure that my shadow is correct. I had a shot sequence where I hit a ball (a blocked return) off the bounce as hard as I ever remember hitting it and in my head, the shot was shallow. But when I reviewed the tape, the swing was actually pretty good. There is hope for me after all.

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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 17:10 
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Here is a video analysis of NextLevel's forehand block issues we have been working on


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PostPosted: 20 Sep 2015, 17:48 
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When your forearm tenses to prepare for the block it pulls the bat head up. That and reaching out are both caused by too much anxiety about blocking. It should be easy if you let it.

So what is the fix for this unnecessary tension? I think we have all practiced lots of blocking and don't tense up too much in practice. So in matches, just relax? Any more technique than that?


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2015, 15:46 
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BRS wrote:
When your forearm tenses to prepare for the block it pulls the bat head up. That and reaching out are both caused by too much anxiety about blocking. It should be easy if you let it.

So what is the fix for this unnecessary tension? I think we have all practiced lots of blocking and don't tense up too much in practice. So in matches, just relax? Any more technique than that?


BRS, "just relax" worries me a little. Tension is a result of fear and uncertainty. Having better technique (waiting for the ball etc) will help to reduce anxiety somewhat. Visualizing a match situation can really help if you know what you are doing.

Cheers,
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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2015, 18:52 
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BRS wrote:
When your forearm tenses to prepare for the block it pulls the bat head up. That and reaching out are both caused by too much anxiety about blocking. It should be easy if you let it.

So what is the fix for this unnecessary tension? I think we have all practiced lots of blocking and don't tense up too much in practice. So in matches, just relax? Any more technique than that?


Getting the right body feeling is a skill in table tennis or any sports. In tt it matters more for aggressive shots like loops where tensing up completely changes the shot.


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2015, 22:01 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
BRS wrote:
When your forearm tenses to prepare for the block it pulls the bat head up. That and reaching out are both caused by too much anxiety about blocking. It should be easy if you let it.

So what is the fix for this unnecessary tension? I think we have all practiced lots of blocking and don't tense up too much in practice. So in matches, just relax? Any more technique than that?


BRS, "just relax" worries me a little. Tension is a result of fear and uncertainty. Having better technique (waiting for the ball etc) will help to reduce anxiety somewhat. Visualizing a match situation can really help if you know what you are doing.

Cheers,
Brett


This is a skill that needs to be taught? That's implied pretty strongly by "... if you know what you are dong."


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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2015, 22:45 
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BRS, he means the stroke. I have proper technique so I need to wait for the ball on the block and visualize doing so.

I think that was the big deal with me in that as an aggressive hitter earlier in my career, I often punched loops over the table. I think that was what really cemented the bag technique - the seduction of being able to win the point with am aggressive early block. However, as I got better, loops became more powerful and harder to track and take early and players became more skilled at varying shot depth and spin. I can still make that bad technique block for an awesome winner. But more often, I struggle with it.

What I need to do is stop trying to win shots with my flat block and accept that there are more sophisticated and reliable shots for doing that. People who watch me today don't know this but I used to have a very strong backhand hit vs underspin. The reason they don't know is that the shot virtually disappeared from my game as soon as I started backhand looping backspin. I can still do it occasionally against a pips player or for some high balls but it is no longer a major feature.of my game.

My forehand block taking the ball very early is likely going to go the same way.

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PostPosted: 21 Sep 2015, 23:21 
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