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PostPosted: 24 Feb 2017, 17:10 
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GMan4911 wrote:
That's because you're focused only on certain aspects of your game and not on your overall game. At USATT 1800, you still have enough holes in your game that you can still benefit by playing lower level people.

Can you beat them playing strictly fishing/lobbing?

Can you beat them strictly using your forehand?

Can you beat them without using offensive shots?

Can you beat them without hitting cross court shots and mainly hitting down the line?

Can you beat them on the third or fifth ball i.e. rallies never extending beyond the third/fifth balls?

Can you keep them under 6 points every single game?

There's tons of things you could work on that will improve your overall game that you don't need higher level players for. Stop focusing on just beating them and focus on improving techniques that you are not that strong at.

There are people several hundred points below me that I still enjoy playing with because they do certain things well enough that I get to work on things that I feel need improvement. They get to improve their technique and so do I. Win-Win.


Kinda reminds me of this guy I knew in college. He'd read Marty Reisman's book and took it way too seriously. You've seen people on this forum pick a "model player", i.e. they base their playing style on one professional player they admire. Well, this guy picked Marty not as a "model player" but as a, um, life model. This meant constantly trying to get people to play him for money, taking bets, etc. If he knew someone wasn't as good as he was (he was rated around 1500) it was "Spot you 10 points" (back then the game went to 21).

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 05:22 
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NextLevel wrote:
Smashing rackets can make for great theatre.


It can if the technique is right. At the tournament last Saturday a guy started screaming about all the nets his opponent got. They went to the fifth and I think he lost 11-9 on two nets. So he threw his paddle, but way out in front, like twenty feet. It was pretty disappointing. You could tell he wasn't really committed to the throw. Proper paddle smashing technique is to throw it almost straight down, only two or three feet in front of your body, and it should come up in minimum three pieces. His was still playable.

Maybe an ETTS video Brett can post for April Fool's, if they have that in Australia.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 06:40 
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BRS wrote:
GMan4911 wrote:
BRS wrote:
And no matter how many times you say it, I don't believe that playing a 1400 10 times is better than playing a 1950 once. Because I've already done that, and it isn't.

That's because you're focused only on certain aspects of your game and not on your overall game. At USATT 1800, you still have enough holes in your game that you can still benefit by playing lower level people.

Can you beat them playing strictly fishing/lobbing?

Can you beat them strictly using your forehand?

Can you beat them without using offensive shots?

Can you beat them without hitting cross court shots and mainly hitting down the line?

Can you beat them on the third or fifth ball i.e. rallies never extending beyond the third/fifth balls?

Can you keep them under 6 points every single game?

There's tons of things you could work on that will improve your overall game that you don't need higher level players for. Stop focusing on just beating them and focus on improving techniques that you are not that strong at.

There are people several hundred points below me that I still enjoy playing with because they do certain things well enough that I get to work on things that I feel need improvement. They get to improve their technique and so do I. Win-Win.


That's true. Lobbing is the best example and that's how I play a lot of these guys since I don't know how to lob and need to learn.

But you've missed the context. This is all in reference to a crazy-tight bh stroke that comes out under tournament pressure. That isn't replicated playing easy matches at the club.


So you mean if you serve good backspin to people in your club who are rated 1400 and they push the ball to your backhand, you will consistently make the opener in the absence of pressure?

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 09:47 
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NextLevel wrote:
So you mean if you serve good backspin to people in your club who are rated 1400 and they push the ball to your backhand, you will consistently make the opener in the absence of pressure?


Yes. There are only two 1400s in this club. One uses LP bh, and will net a good backspin serve. The other one has learned to touch my sidespin serves short to my fh, defeating the whole purpose of the sidespin. I was kind of shocked when I saw it because 1700 players always send the ball to my bh as intended, and he's not otherwise a good receiver. I asked what was up, and he said he was tired of getting beat on my bh side, and he'd rather go at my fh.

Dealing with short receives to my fh is outstanding practice. It just isn't what I thought I'd be working on after those serves.

Posts like Gman's, and your question, are kind of based on a bigger, full-time club mindset. Here there are two 1800s and three 1700s (not usually all on the same night) and nobody from 1475 - 1700. The two 1400s mentioned above, and there's two 1300s, and the rest are basement players. This is actually a huge improvement from when I started. There was just the one 1800, and the next best was around 1500, and that was just one guy. So yes, I can open on the 1400s in my club, because we've played each other >1,000 times already.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 10:15 
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I suspect what you think is an opener is not what I think is an opener but in any case, I will take that up elsewhere in the absence of video.

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 10:53 
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NextLevel wrote:
I suspect what you think is an opener is not what I think is an opener but in any case, I will take that up elsewhere in the absence of video.


Maybe the receive is not what you think it should be. Anyway, I hope we will get to play in person in April, never mind video.


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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 18:28 
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Are we on for 7pm EST Sunday?

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PostPosted: 25 Feb 2017, 22:01 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Are we on for 7pm EST Sunday?


Sure thing.


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 21:13 
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LTT62 is available on ttEDGE.com

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 01:13 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
LTT62 is available on ttEDGE.com


Much easier to see in this angle and with the ball. He is using a very straight arm and taking the ball very late, behind his body, to send it cross-court. I assume both those things are optional?

If he was set up closer to the ball and he wanted to place it down the line, he could do the same thing with a bent arm and take the ball earlier, and still get the benefit of starting his rotation forward as the backswing is finishing with no pause. Is that right?


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 01:58 
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I have a question about the whip forehand. I think that this kind of stroke is placing a hell of a stress on the shoulder joint. When I see Ben doing it in LTT62, it makes me cringe. Especially at the end of the stroke, when the arm moves very fast and suddenly stops. I feel like it is easy to get injured. Am I right? How to prevent shoulder injuries?


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 05:05 
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fastmover wrote:
I have a question about the whip forehand. I think that this kind of stroke is placing a hell of a stress on the shoulder joint. When I see Ben doing it in LTT62, it makes me cringe. Especially at the end of the stroke, when the arm moves very fast and suddenly stops. I feel like it is easy to get injured. Am I right? How to prevent shoulder injuries?


I don't know if there is any more risk to this stroke than a stiff one driven by the arm and chest muscles. He is changing direction hard, but with a long follow through.


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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 13:30 
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BRS wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
LTT62 is available on ttEDGE.com


Much easier to see in this angle and with the ball. He is using a very straight arm and taking the ball very late, behind his body, to send it cross-court. I assume both those things are optional?

If he was set up closer to the ball and he wanted to place it down the line, he could do the same thing with a bent arm and take the ball earlier, and still get the benefit of starting his rotation forward as the backswing is finishing with no pause. Is that right?


Yes, when playing this exact stroke, the ball is behind you. If you think about the fact that the arm is catching up to the shoulder, it has to happen on big shots. I've uploaded a picture (below) of Ma Lin from almost side-on. If the camera was exactly side on, you'd be able to clearly see it was behind. Here's the video https://youtu.be/8z6AyEm8G0s?t=43 I don't think you should be aiming to hit the ball from behind you though. It's just what ends up happening.

If Ben did use a bent arm, he would still get a whip effect. Whether he should ever use a bent arm is up for debate. Let's agree that Xu Xin has one of the best forehands of all time. He was No.1 in the world with a relatively poor backhand. Count how many bent arm loops he hits in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG-QGQ9Aw38&t

Attachment:
Ma Lin behind.JPG
Ma Lin behind.JPG [ 35.13 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 13:39 
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BRS wrote:
fastmover wrote:
I have a question about the whip forehand. I think that this kind of stroke is placing a hell of a stress on the shoulder joint. When I see Ben doing it in LTT62, it makes me cringe. Especially at the end of the stroke, when the arm moves very fast and suddenly stops. I feel like it is easy to get injured. Am I right? How to prevent shoulder injuries?


I don't know if there is any more risk to this stroke than a stiff one driven by the arm and chest muscles. He is changing direction hard, but with a long follow through.


Keep in mind that this is a huge swing against a very easy ball. You won't be able to swing back so far against a faster oncoming ball, at least at first.

I don't know if the risk of injury is increased by using such mechanics, especially if you are only using this swing against easy balls. Watch the size of the shots Ma Lin is making in this video https://youtu.be/NaUBMjVhxw8 Mistimed shots carry a serious injury risk imo.

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PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 14:28 
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I used to try to loop like this when I was USATT 500-600. We have a player in my club who remembers this. He said that my first coach ruined my stroke and that I should never have stopped looping like that. I guess 6 years later, I can now understand what he meant.

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