OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Kick blocking is the shot I play against the loop in the first few points. Just click the link and watch from there. https://youtu.be/B7rIkFwTr2U?t=139 . It's not a shot I really have in my range at this stage and I'd probably be a year or two off being able to use it. There's actually a serious chance I'll never get good enough to use it.

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Eh, I don't know - 2000 USATT is NOT some magical unobtainable level, one can get to it with enough practice and tournament play. It is not trivial, but doable. You just need time to train/play, focus (to work on things that matter), decent availability of 2000+ opponents, and some persistency. Barring a physical injury, I think I'll probably make it , and I started around 48.

If you were to say 2500, that's another story.

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

I just want people watching to have some insight into what is happening.

The dynamic of spin building up in a point (or not building up) is often underestimated by people who have never been forced to think through it. They then wonder why they can't loop balls they could loop when they had worse backspin serves etc. Or why their better serves are getting lower returns...

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I started at 34. I am fairly sure that BRS started much later than that. 2000 is hard but not unreasonable. 2300 I think is where the magic is. Any adult learner who gets to 2200 is doing great things - not impossible especially if you are a decent athlete.

2500 is another story but if you make it a full time job and start in your twenties, and of course are gifted, you may get somewhere just don't think about world champion.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

If you can return well and open up with quality serves you have a real chance vs the 2000 crowd. It's really a consistency test.
I've watched a lot of 2300 players lately. They all seem to have 1 thing they do exceptionally well. They also have good anticipation.
Watching a 2000 vs 2300 player is an obvious mismatch and the 2300 players often does not even take the match seriously.

So yea, I think we all can reach 2000 and get embarrassed by 2300s. That's well within our ability.

I agree that 2000 should be reachable for adults, given enough motivation and playing time. I actually used the wording "above 2000".

I'm seeing a lot of adult players below or at 2000 in the local club and only a few above that, and I'm pretty sure the latter started much earlier and/or had received proper coaching in their childhood. Rare exceptions might exist - like Bin Hai Chu who I believe started playing as an adult?
I admire BRS's determination in learning TT (have read his entire blog on this forum ) but he also seems to struggle with breaking 2000 and consistently staying there.
NextLevel, I don't know your rating so cannot comment.

I have been roughly 2000 USATT +/-100 since 2015 . I have ups and downs and even injuries but I don't think anyone would argue I wasn't 2000. I also have knee issues and various forms of arthritis.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

I started at 43. And I have worked really hard, not as hard as NL, but a lot of hours. Still I was only able to break 2000 at one tournament where I played my absolute best level several matches in a row. Now I'm creeping up on 2000 again, more than a year later.

The things that I think held me back are:

1. No good players in the club. My town had a two nights a week club and the best players were < 1400 basement styles. Seven years later all those guys play just the same as the first day I walked in.

2. No coaching. When I started the LTT series I had to re-learn every stroke. And I'd been playing for three years or more then. So those first three years were equivalent to negative one or two years, since it's hard as hell to unlearn bad habits.

3. Training with the damn robot five days a week. Disaster. I've posted about that endlessly, so enuff said.

If you have a great club like Broward or Westchester, with lots of good players who use proper strokes, three or four years to get over 2000 seems very possible, even starting over 40. It's still going to take a ton of work. And over 2200 is borderline impossible, imo. It could be done, but the commitment required would be at the level of a second job.

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I agree. Reaching 2000 is possible for an adult learner. You, BRS, freeagent & NL are proof. Maybe these players aren't always above 2000, but they are pretty close. Bigd also plays at this level, but maybe he had some junior experience? NextLevel broke 2100 with real physical restrictions.

Clearly you need to work really hard to get there and it can't be underestimated how much time it takes. You need to have serious passion for the sport and some obsessive tendencies help too.

I doubt an adult learner can ever make 2500. That's a serious level and 99.99% of players never get there, regardless of their starting age.

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Well, I have not made it yet: my current USATT rating is my highest one, but to be honest I feel my true level is closer to 1850, I just had a really good last tournament, similar to what happened to 'BRS'. It does feel like it's possible, though, since I had enough close matches against folks at that level or above in tournament settings, so I'm not scared that much of them anymore .

As far as 'scaring' other players goes, my best one was probably a 2:3 loss to a legit 2300+ player at the club setting. I doubt I would've had the same result in a tournament, but there is enough 'weirdness' in my game to cause discomfort to conventional players (pips, you know...). I did beat a 2300+ player in the league once, but he was goofing around, so I don't count that. And yes, 2500 is a tough nut to crack, to say the least, but honestly, it's more about enjoying the game at this point anyway.

You also nailed it with the observation that most people in this thread are quite passionate about TT to the point of obsessed (sometimes I wonder what could've happened if I got hooked on it when I was 7 years old...). Somewhat curious what in your experience pros are like: how many actually love it, as compared to "it's a job"?

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

You are above 1900 with an upward trending chart. What difference do some numbers really make?

Your question about pros is a good one. The answer is, it depends on the individual and lot of other variables. Many have a love/hate relationship with the sport. Warning!!! This could be a long post.

Almost every elite player starts off enjoying the sport at the age of 8. From there a lot depends on the attitude of their parents and coaches. All too often a parent wants the best for their kid, however they have no idea what they are doing. Parents are mostly new to sport and it's not necessarily their fault - it's literally a lack of experience and knowledge.

Parents and coaches turn the game into a sport. The parent wants success and the coach wants the business...and success. Parents don't understand that fun is the main ingredient for success. How is a parent meant to know that? Table Tennis is a game and games are meant to be fun. Life is meant to be fun. Apart from money, what good is playing a game if it's not fun?

Most kids don't make the distance. By the time they are 17, the fun has long gone and the parent now wants academic success. The same parent who took the fun out of the game is now on the road to taking the fun out of life. The kid is forced to quit to become a doctor or lawyer or something.

A few kids survive. They are generally the strong ones who have had the most junior success. By now they have started to make real goals like making the Olympics etc. Being goal oriented is a double edged sword. Goals can give you motivation to achieve and they can set you up for failure. Failure isn't a lot of fun. Making the Olympics isn't a lot of fun either. Shhhh, please don't tell anyone because it's meant to be a secret!

By the time the player is 25-30 year of age, they have often developed this love/hate relationship with the sport. The joy of hitting the ball is long gone and the feeling of obligation often takes over. Players sometimes become scared of losing because their entire ego and reputation is wrapped up in their success and public image. They feel sick for a few days before every competition because losing would be soul crushing. Every loss is humiliating and every close win is just a relief. This is the direct result of the conditioning received at the age of 10-17.

Then, on the flip side, there are moments of real magic. The player hits an upswing and they are really winning. There is no better feeling in life than playing in the "zone" in big matches. This is the drug that keeps elite players coming back.

Some players are above all of this and just love playing. Samsonov comes to mind. Henzell loved training, however, most of the above applied to him. If he was having a bad season in Europe, you could reliably find him curled up in his bed...in the dark...during the day. Luckily for him he had good parents, so he didn't have junior conditioning.

Adult learners don't have some of the bad stuff mentioned above. That is your advantage. You are free to enjoy the sport on your own terms and you don't have to inconvenience yourself with the Olympics. Ironically, I now have the same advantages. I can just hit backhands for the sake of improving the shot. I can play against "friends" and try to beat them for the thrill of the game. I'm finally free!!!

My job as an elite coach is to protect young players from everyone and to teach them skills and truth. As they get older, I try to show them how to avoid some of the pitfalls mentioned above. When they start feeling sick about competing at the age of 21, I'm there to help.

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Thank you, Brett - probably one of the best posts I've read on OOAK (or anywhere else, to be honest).

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USATT: 1807 | League: 1887

Yes, the burnout can be real. One of my best friends is a very decent player, yet he is disgusted by the thought of playing again.

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Tactics Enthusiast

Thanks Brett.

I've got a 5 year old and his training involves hitting a forehand like dad and then he smashes the ball at dad.
He's already behind most Asian kids in his training...but I figure it's his choice if he wants to do anything with it. If he can get the feel of the bounce and hold the paddle right he's doing all he needs to do for now, if he ever wants to get into it more. I kind of cringe when I see these kids playing so hard as such an early age. We all know the effort going into that.

Sometimes he hits these technically strong top spin forehands that I doubt most players under 1600 have ever hit.

Sounds like a lot of fun Russ. I didn't even know what TT was at the age of 5.

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