OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 26 Apr 2024, 04:25


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8509 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 354, 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360 ... 568  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:01 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
NextLevel wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
My goal is to make my backhand great again. I have been found guilty of pushing too many balls that I would have attacked 3 or 4 years ago (for obvious reasons IMO, but no one cares).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fjD7uL1c58

The first 6 minutes are me practicing a backhand flick against heavy backspin, which is the spin that I am often scare to flick against and usually push. Any recommendations?

Also, what kind of ball is too short to flick against? When is the short push clearly preferable?

I am beginning to feel better about my serves in general again. They aren't all the way back (not enough practice) but I am focusing more on spin rather than length and not serving as much backspin! And the length is paradoxically getting better.


Is my technique so bad it deserves no comment? :headbang:


(Story taken from Zen in the Martial Arts, by Joe Hyams)

I was having tea with Master Han in his office when the mailman arrived with a letter from the master’s family in Korea.

Knowing he had been eagerly anticipating the letter, I paused in our conversation, expecting him to tear open the envelope and hastily scan the contents. Instead, he put the letter aside, turned to me, and continued our conversation.

The following day I remarked on his self-control, saying that I would have read the letter at once.

“I did what I would have done had I been alone,” he said. “I put the letter aside until I had conquered haste. Then when I set my hand on it, I opened it as though it were something precious.”

I puzzled over this comment a moment, knowing he meant it to be a lesson for me. Finally I said I didn’t understand what such patience led to.

“It leads to this,” he said. “Those who are patient in the trivial things in life and control themselves will one day have the same mastery in great and important things.”

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:07 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 3578
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 305 times
Blade: Joola Vyzaryz Trinity
FH: Golden Tango
BH: Golden Tango
Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
My goal is to make my backhand great again. I have been found guilty of pushing too many balls that I would have attacked 3 or 4 years ago (for obvious reasons IMO, but no one cares).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fjD7uL1c58

The first 6 minutes are me practicing a backhand flick against heavy backspin, which is the spin that I am often scare to flick against and usually push. Any recommendations?

Also, what kind of ball is too short to flick against? When is the short push clearly preferable?

I am beginning to feel better about my serves in general again. They aren't all the way back (not enough practice) but I am focusing more on spin rather than length and not serving as much backspin! And the length is paradoxically getting better.


Is my technique so bad it deserves no comment? :headbang:


(Story taken from Zen in the Martial Arts, by Joe Hyams)

I was having tea with Master Han in his office when the mailman arrived with a letter from the master’s family in Korea.

Knowing he had been eagerly anticipating the letter, I paused in our conversation, expecting him to tear open the envelope and hastily scan the contents. Instead, he put the letter aside, turned to me, and continued our conversation.

The following day I remarked on his self-control, saying that I would have read the letter at once.

“I did what I would have done had I been alone,” he said. “I put the letter aside until I had conquered haste. Then when I set my hand on it, I opened it as though it were something precious.”

I puzzled over this comment a moment, knowing he meant it to be a lesson for me. Finally I said I didn’t understand what such patience led to.

“It leads to this,” he said. “Those who are patient in the trivial things in life and control themselves will one day have the same mastery in great and important things.”


LTT111 shall not die a silent death because of Zen Buddhist philosophy!

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:16 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User

Joined: 08 Apr 2015, 11:50
Posts: 1515
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 188 times
Brett Clarke wrote:
BRS wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:

So how do you coach someone? What do you do?


When I coach some adult who has been playing for ten or twenty years and can't spin the ball? I tell them to switch to short pips.

I've stopped telling people what to do or not do with their body. They can never change it. I'm not feeding them multiball every day for five years, they aren't kids, it isn't happening.

I try to demo, or else use what you did with me, asking them to hit the ball somewhere exaggerated. If they are looping into the net I might ask them to hit the back wall. Or the ceiling if they are pushing into the net. If they push my sidrspin serve off the left side if the table (my left) I ask them to hit it off the right side. Their brains will figure out what to do much better and faster if given nothing to think avout except the desired response if the ball. Russ having a guy loop over boxes is the same idea.

I am not a paid coach and I have no responsibilty, so my situation is completely different from NL's and yours. I don't have to pretend to own some knowledge that can be transmitted apart from thousands if hours of hard slog. In fact I also occasionally say what Brian Pace told me at the end of my first ever TT lesson. Hit 10,000 of them at home, and if there's still a problem come see me again.


Telling some to work towards the desired outcome is very powerful. "Show me a loop that goes very slowly with lots of spin." I've said that a lot in my life. There should be more of this type of coaching. I have a friend who mainly uses this method and it's interesting to watch.

But let's pretend that you are a professional coach and it's now on you to critique Rich's forehand in video ETTS57. His torso is dropping as his arm is coming up. What would you tell him? Do you believe that things will eventually change if you just tell him to hit the ball higher? Or do you believe that it's an exercise in futility because he's an adult and has no chance to change? What would you do?
.


I missed this question yesterday. I think I would ask rich to hit the ball forward and not up. To make the ball go directly forward fast. Obviously this is a real match situation and not training, so it's tougher for him to react the way I ask him to. Rich clearly isn't dropping his body on purpose. But that will make it even harder for him to NOT drop his body on purpose. I did the same on my bh, you made an etts of me too.

So I think if he tries to make the ball go forward fast he won't be able to drop his weight down.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:19 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
NextLevel wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
My goal is to make my backhand great again. I have been found guilty of pushing too many balls that I would have attacked 3 or 4 years ago (for obvious reasons IMO, but no one cares).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fjD7uL1c58

The first 6 minutes are me practicing a backhand flick against heavy backspin, which is the spin that I am often scare to flick against and usually push. Any recommendations?

Also, what kind of ball is too short to flick against? When is the short push clearly preferable?

I am beginning to feel better about my serves in general again. They aren't all the way back (not enough practice) but I am focusing more on spin rather than length and not serving as much backspin! And the length is paradoxically getting better.


Is my technique so bad it deserves no comment? :headbang:


Okay, I'll get serious for once.

In a match situation, you don't want to be flicking half-long balls. But let's assume that you are always playing short balls.

You need to come in earlier, lean over the ball more, and then spring off the ball more. LTT91 is the video where I explain this. And here is the receipt https://youtu.be/kyvzVosDvvY?t=235

You should be straightening your torso as you are striking the ball and jumping backward. The feeling should be like you are using your body as a spring.

The lower you get your body, the higher your elbow will be. Your arm structure is good enough.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Last edited by Brett Clarke on 12 Apr 2019, 07:27, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:25 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
NextLevel wrote:
Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:

Is my technique so bad it deserves no comment? :headbang:


(Story taken from Zen in the Martial Arts, by Joe Hyams)

I was having tea with Master Han in his office when the mailman arrived with a letter from the master’s family in Korea.

Knowing he had been eagerly anticipating the letter, I paused in our conversation, expecting him to tear open the envelope and hastily scan the contents. Instead, he put the letter aside, turned to me, and continued our conversation.

The following day I remarked on his self-control, saying that I would have read the letter at once.

“I did what I would have done had I been alone,” he said. “I put the letter aside until I had conquered haste. Then when I set my hand on it, I opened it as though it were something precious.”

I puzzled over this comment a moment, knowing he meant it to be a lesson for me. Finally I said I didn’t understand what such patience led to.

“It leads to this,” he said. “Those who are patient in the trivial things in life and control themselves will one day have the same mastery in great and important things.”


LTT111 shall not die a silent death because of Zen Buddhist philosophy!


LTT111 is your real ttEDGE test. You'll never make the FinalLevel if you don't learn to Conquer Haste...It's that simple/complex.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:42 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 3578
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 305 times
Blade: Joola Vyzaryz Trinity
FH: Golden Tango
BH: Golden Tango
Well I don't chop so I will relinquish the responsibility of campaigning for LTT111 to those who do. I usually fight for those who have no voice and I just felt sorry for poor LTT 111. I really hope it doesn't suffer from the Eternal Darkness of the TT Mind.

Oh and you were referencing LTT91 for the Banana, not LTT88. Thanks.
Will be interesting to adapt .

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 07:49 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2014, 21:10
Posts: 2631
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 256 times
NextLevel wrote:
Well I don't chop so I will relinquish the responsibility of campaigning for LTT111 to those who do. I usually fight for those who have no voice and I just felt sorry for poor LTT 111. I really hope it doesn't suffer from the Eternal Darkness of the TT Mind.

Oh and you were referencing LTT91 for the Banana, not LTT88. Thanks.
Will be interesting to adapt .


I corrected to LTT91 as you were typing.

You can't save the world, but you can save a few ttEDGE members.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 12:32 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
I think for an adult learner the decision to loop all half long serves is extremely liberating. For me it was one of the best things I ever done to reorganize my game. The most important implication is that I don't need to waste my time practicing flicks, I can devote all my resources to perfecting the "long" game and it will be enough for me.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 12:46 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 3578
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 305 times
Blade: Joola Vyzaryz Trinity
FH: Golden Tango
BH: Golden Tango
fastmover wrote:
I think for an adult learner the decision to loop all half long serves is extremely liberating. For me it was one of the best things I ever done to reorganize my game. The most important implication is that I don't need to waste my time practicing flicks, I can devote all my resources to perfecting the "long" game and it will be enough for me.


I remember being afraid that people would serve long into my forehand. I couldn't fold or any of that stuff. I actually preferred it when when they served backspin instead of topspin as I couldn't read or loop deceptive topspin and keep the ball on the table.

Now few things are sweeter than watching a serve drift half long and punishing it with heavy spin or raw power.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 20:19 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 09:28
Posts: 166
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Blade: Acoustic
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
fastmover wrote:
I think for an adult learner the decision to loop all half long serves is extremely liberating. For me it was one of the best things I ever done to reorganize my game. The most important implication is that I don't need to waste my time practicing flicks, I can devote all my resources to perfecting the "long" game and it will be enough for me.


And what if they serve short no spin or pure side/topspin?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 22:07 
Offline
One-Loop Man
One-Loop Man
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2011, 10:45
Posts: 3578
Has thanked: 303 times
Been thanked: 305 times
Blade: Joola Vyzaryz Trinity
FH: Golden Tango
BH: Golden Tango
FruitLoop wrote:
fastmover wrote:
I think for an adult learner the decision to loop all half long serves is extremely liberating. For me it was one of the best things I ever done to reorganize my game. The most important implication is that I don't need to waste my time practicing flicks, I can devote all my resources to perfecting the "long" game and it will be enough for me.


And what if they serve short no spin or pure side/topspin?


I know you asked fastmover, but very few people can serve short at the lower levels and keep the ball low so those balls are loopable as well as long as you don't start your stroke below the table. And if you find the unicorn who can serve short with quality, then you can practice your flick then. I just sideswiped the topspin ball until I developed a better flick.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2019, 23:03 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
FruitLoop wrote:
fastmover wrote:
I think for an adult learner the decision to loop all half long serves is extremely liberating. For me it was one of the best things I ever done to reorganize my game. The most important implication is that I don't need to waste my time practicing flicks, I can devote all my resources to perfecting the "long" game and it will be enough for me.


And what if they serve short no spin or pure side/topspin?


I will try to chop down on the ball and return with backspin. In a desperate attempt I can try to flick and even make it on the table, but it won't be strong. Short topspin/sidespin is even less likely than short backspin because the ball kicks forward, making this serve extremely difficult to keep short.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2019, 03:38 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 09:28
Posts: 166
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Blade: Acoustic
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
I agree most people serve long and the lower you go the more pronounced it is but I play people all the time who serve short no spin and top/sidespin. I do it myself and I am low level after all.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2019, 03:39 
Offline
Senior member

Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 09:28
Posts: 166
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 7 times
Blade: Acoustic
FH: Tenergy 05
BH: Tenergy 05
fastmover wrote:
FruitLoop wrote:
fastmover wrote:
I think for an adult learner the decision to loop all half long serves is extremely liberating. For me it was one of the best things I ever done to reorganize my game. The most important implication is that I don't need to waste my time practicing flicks, I can devote all my resources to perfecting the "long" game and it will be enough for me.


And what if they serve short no spin or pure side/topspin?


I will try to chop down on the ball and return with backspin. In a desperate attempt I can try to flick and even make it on the table, but it won't be strong. Short topspin/sidespin is even less likely than short backspin because the ball kicks forward, making this serve extremely difficult to keep short.


Pushing a topspin short serve sounds way more difficult than flicking.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Apr 2019, 03:47 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2016, 13:21
Posts: 1029
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 35 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 Neo
BH: DHS Hurricane 8-80
Depends on the spin, but you can always chop down on the back of the ball with a tremendous power to generate a return that is not quite easy to attack. A hard tacky rubber like H3 helps with it a lot: it is one of the areas where such rubbers shine extremely bright compared to regular ESN or Tenergy. Such return will have a ton of backspin and some residual sidespin and not that many players (at my level) can kill those or even attack them consistently.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast


Last edited by Dr.Pivot on 13 Apr 2019, 03:54, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8509 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 354, 355, 356, 357, 358, 359, 360 ... 568  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 154 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group