OOAK Table Tennis Forum

If you have a correct shot that starts missing when you are anxious, you have to deal with the anxiety, not the shot. In this instance, I'm assuming you have good arm structure along with correct body work and timing. It takes experience to be able to see if a mistake is technical or mental.

I've made videos about dealing with anxiety. They are in the psychology section of ttEDGE.com

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Please let me know how it goes

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This is pretty close. I would personally still just apply my strategy, especially in a training match. My strategy against choppers is to serve short and play strong against the receive. I also prefer to loop the long serves. It would be rare for me to player a chopper who can't attack.

I don't hate you exploiting this opponent's obvious weaknesses because I think you are aware enough of the limitations. If you play a 2200 type chopper, he'll probably destroy weak returns etc. You'll have to adjust and then you'll be tested. You already know this and that puts you miles ahead of most players.

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In a match? I'm struggling to hit the ball on the table and I can't even think about hitting the ball deep into the last 6 inches.

Henzell talked a bit about playing to close to the lines, but he generally meant the sides of the table. He liked angles and down the line stuff.

A high percentage of errors in TT occur when players miss the end of the table and, to the best of my knowledge, they aren't even trying to play deep. The end of the table is a serious hazard which needs to be avoided, especially whilst blocking and looping. It's a bit different when you are pushing and serving long.

Generally, use a lot of spin and speed whilst avoiding the end of the table and the net. In the video below, I'm using a decent amount of spin and speed. I'm hoping to clear the net by a good amount whilst avoiding the end of the table.

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Was reading this on ESPN just now:

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_ ... mes-harden

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Interesting stuff. This has to still apply to adult learners, wouldn't you think? Slower and less powerful than for a kid, sure, but still there.

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Ok, I will be in Miami from 26th Dec to 2rd January, if you will be around let me know -- we can hang around and play a bit.

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Cool, you are going to the Keinath camp! Please write a review after. There is so little information online about the various camps.

I'll be in Denmark from the 26th to 30th, and then back at work in DC for New Year's, so we won't get to meet irl and play, not this time at least.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

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I've been thinking about this advice in light of my own situation, and while it has a tremendous counter-intuitive appeal, I think it's not true. The wisdom of crowds is usually right and there is definitely a large majority of TT players who believe playing stronger players than yourself is best.

Imo, if you play people you can beat easily, focusing all the while on proper technique, it's all going to completely fall apart when you then play someone better than you. Take a hypothetical player rated 1946 with inverted fh sp backhand naned "Ben."

Ben could play umpteen million matches vs some 1800 guys, using not perfect but quite good technique. Ben then takes his good technique up against a 2100. The quality and placement of the 2100 is going to be so different from the umpteen million preceding matches, Ben's brain is goibg to be like "WTF is this? How the hell am I supposed to return/block/loop/etc. that?". And the good technique is going to disintegrate.

Whereas if hypothetical Ben plays fifty matches against some 2100 guys, getting ass-whippings all the time but competing his best, and then plays a 1900 guy, how will Ben's brain process the 1900's game. It's going to be slow, and not very spinny, and the serves will be easier to attack, and the 1900 will miss shots for no real reason that the 2100s just didn't miss. And Ben will feel like he has time to play with good technique, so he will play reasonably good technique

Brett frequently using driving as a metaphor for table tennis, his point being, you don't think about it. Extending that, think about how it feels when you've driven 85 mph (137 kph) on the highway for a while, and then you have to slow down to 60 for a bit. Feels like you are crawling. Wouldn't table tennis be the same?

What I'm trying to say is, time is not the problem. There is actually plenty of time for your body to execute proper technique. The problem is our brain's perception of that time is not accurate. So continuing to train the technique slowly isn't solving the problem. We have to recalibrate our brains' perception of table tennis time.

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Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Every approach to training TT has limitations and exceptions and is based on hopeful analogies to the ideal improvement or situation you want to master. Just try it and if it doesn't work, great. If you are starved for training time, do whatever you enjoy. Playing weaker players has as reasonable a basis as playing stronger players. You can criticize or support either approach if you try hard enough.enough

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One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

In racquetball, I was taught to try to play half my matches against opponents ~1 level lower than I, and half against ~1 level higher. Both are critical.

Against the lower players, you will get more setups than normal. You should be focused on consistently executing strong winners. The ball will be moving slightly slower than you are used to. You can really focus using the proper footwork and technique.

Against the stronger players, you wont have the time to think about footwork or technique - the ball will be moving a little faster than you are comfortable, and you won't get many setups. It's important to learn to play under these conditions too - how to execute as well as possible when off balance, or when you are being pushed back or constantly chasing every ball down. To move up you have survive these situations too.

In both cases, the players shouldn't be too far from your own level. Playing someone too much better (or worse) isn't that useful.

Yeah. But even that advice can have limitations. The thing is that I'd you want to practice doing something or practice against something, play or practice with the person that gives you a chance to practice it. One of my coaches said it is far more useful to hit with a player 400 pts better than you than to play matches with a player 400 pts better than you. Even that claim has its limitations but I think it has a great point.


I agree with Ben that playing weaker players may not improve your overall game. But it may give you a chance to even start to implement something that you cannot otherwise practice. And that is important. It just isn't your whole game.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

For me, what works vs 1400s will work vs 1800s when it comes to serve and 3rd ball attack. Now the 2100 crowd may just destroy it. I've experienced this.
My serve 'testing' against a level higher is pretty important still. See if they can attack it well. If they cannot then I have a serve I can work with.

Yeah playing better players is important - then again maybe just playing players who you struggle against is important.

I won a match today against the leftie with heavy side spin serves. I ended up using touch to put them on the table and letting him deal with his own spin. Many of the returns went long and he had a good look at a loop but could not execute (technique issues). Last time I had lost vs him, this time I had won. I'm not too sure how I feel about it. I feel like I should be attacking these serves but the moment I go for a strong loop they often go long. Sending his serve back feels pretty decent with touch players with better forehands would slaughter me. I'll have plenty of time to work against him and I'm going to try and slowly build up stronger returns vs him.

Edited because I couldn't even understand what I wrote.

This post is related to the above conversation and others.

I finished my first 8 training session. The sessions mostly consisted of multiball and a good amount of time was spent on improving my backhand.

The problem is that "boards don't hit back" so I needed to jump into the pool. I woke up a couple of days ago and caught a flight to Bangkok. I had never played TT in Bangkok but I know there are a lot of players. When I arrived in Bangkok I googled "table tennis club". I found a club a few miles away and it looked like a National Training Center / Club, so yesterday I risked my life to get there. I used the app "Grab" (Uber) and ordered a "bike". I sat on the back of a motorbike and we weaved in and out of the most dense traffic on the planet. As I write, I'm not 100% sure that I'll make it out of this adventure alive, and that's okay.

Anyway, I turned up at the club and there was no one there, so I practiced my serves. I thought I'll play with anyone who comes in and asks me for a hit. A 60 year old guy walks in and asks me to play. The guy turns out to be a 1400 type player...not exactly what I was hoping for! I asked him to play some games and he said his shoulder was too sore. I just wanted to loop his serve which is something I haven't practiced in my training. It would also give me a slight opportunity to get use to the tables.

In the mean time, the hall started to fill up and my 60 yr old guy calls over the best player in the hall. I had been watching the guy out of the corner of my eye and he played relatively well. A small crowd started to form to watch this "match" I was about to be involved in and I was suddenly feeling nervous. My opponent plays at approx 2150 and is as awkward as hell. He has a 2300+ backhand and a <1900 forehand.

The first game was close and he won the second game. The ball was jumping around off a table and the guy had made 15 really good backhands. My backhand was disappointing although I was trying to visualize the desired result after every bad shot. He was serving either short or half long and, although he had a very weak forehand, I refused to push long. I received either short to his forehand or looped to his forehand. My mind was racing and I felt really nervous and slightly embarrassed. I expected to start badly, but not quite like this.

I won the next 8 games straight in about 30 minutes and there were a lot of 11-3 games. I had calmed down and the backhand I've been working on slowly started to show up. I was still constantly visualizing my backhand after every single point.

After the match I sat down for about an hour until the hall was completely full. I then identified my next target who I had watched play a bunch of matches. I estimated this guy to be 2250. He plays away from the table and doesn't miss much. I asked him to play me and he refused because he didn't know anything about me. He didn't see my first match. 2250 guys need to be careful that they don't just play with random bad players and waste their night.

I asked him again and he finally agreed. He won the first game but I was playing better now. I think we both knew he got lucky. I won the next 9 games in 40 minutes. By this time some national youth players were in the hall and got to see me play a bit. These guys were former national junior team and play 2500+. They wanted to play me but I was too tired after 20 games, so I just took their phone number.

My shoulder was sore too. I didn't always get to use my body on my forehand and I paid the price. I went for Thai massage and told them I had a sore shoulder. The lady went away and got a hammer and a wooden stick. Yep, she put the wooden stick on the back of my shoulder and smashed it with the hammer about 1000 times. It hurt a lot but I didn't complain. I somehow thought that I deserved it.

In one day I got to find a club, risk my life, have fun, play some matches, makes some friends, get hit with a hammer a bunch of times as well as getting some phone numbers of elite players. I also got to implement the things I've been practicing against relatively weaker players.

So the question is, did it do me any good to play players who I could beat 18-2 in games. Was this a good start for me? Should I have jumped in and played some 2500+ players after a long layoff? Would I have taken steps to improving my backhand against national team players?

I think I did the right thing yesterday. My goal wasn't to just lose some matches. My goal was to slowly try to implement the things I've been working on. If I had started nervously at high speed, I would have been crushed and wouldn't have had the chance to make some loops against easier balls. That said, I think it would be a mistake to continue to play players much weaker than me once I can do the things I want to do. I need to find a balance and continue to rethink where I'm at. If my backhand falls apart, play weaker players. If my backhand is going well, find strong players.

On Sunday, I'll play my only friend in Bangkok. He's former national team and normally wins the Thai over 40 Championships. He's won 3 out of the last 4, I believe. He plays about 2500 and he looks and plays like he is 25 yrs old. Then I'll find some of these national youth players and see where that leads.

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Both of these posts make sense to me. It is extremely important to play against players who are better than you. You'll adapt to the speed of ball and you'll learn what you need to improve. If you get the chance to play a good player, you'd be crazy not to take it.

On the other hand, a really good player can tie you up and restrict you from developing your range of shots. For example, when I played the 2150 and 2250 guys yesterday, I never let them make the first loop. My serving and returning skills are miles above their level and they were forced into blocking and counter attacking every single point. Let's say that I made 200 opening loops in the matches. My opponents made less than 5. That's not so good for them. Yes, they may have improved their blocking skill slightly, but they didn't improving their opening skills at all.

Overall, I think a balance is needed. If you disagree with this, it doesn't matter anyway. Reality will force you into a balance. No one is that good at finding training match partners who are always better than them. If I had spend my life only playing better players, I'd have often been waiting for a long time to play. So take every opportunity to play better players because they may not be as common as you think.

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