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PostPosted: 05 May 2017, 08:20 
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NextLevel wrote:
Not ideal form (should really get lower), but for exemplification - playing over the ball while taking the ball late:

https://youtu.be/qkNNJmrSNgI?t=2272


I'll show you something I find interesting https://youtu.be/qkNNJmrSNgI?t=2010 . Watch NL block for a minute. He is obviously trying to block very softly for his training partner (student?) however he is still pausing and using a perfectly timed micro-whip pattern to make the shot. This demonstrates a high level of understanding of TT mechanics. It would be very easy to mess up this soft blocking technique and still get the same outcome. NL is intentionally doing the right thing even though it doesn't really matter for the result.

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PostPosted: 05 May 2017, 08:57 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Not ideal form (should really get lower), but for exemplification - playing over the ball while taking the ball late:

https://youtu.be/qkNNJmrSNgI?t=2272


I'll show you something I find interesting https://youtu.be/qkNNJmrSNgI?t=2010 . Watch NL block for a minute. He is obviously trying to block very softly for his training partner (student?) however he is still pausing and using a perfectly timed micro-whip pattern to make the shot. This demonstrates a high level of understanding of TT mechanics. It would be very easy to mess up this soft blocking technique and still get the same outcome. NL is intentionally doing the right thing even though it doesn't really matter for the result.


Thanks for the kind words. I did say that I try to play to some degeee like I am not sure where the ball is going. Still having backhand blocking issues but there is progress.

He is a Student - he worked with me for two months when his coach was out of town and decided he wanted to continue to work with me. Been trying to change his mental approach to the sport and make minor technical modifications. The timing and approach to points is the biggest issue but he has made progress over time, so I can't complain. We have been at this for seven months, I have video of the early days so that no one can claim I didnt do anything for his game (lol) though of course the credit is largely to him for the passion and the hours. But his ball quality has helped me a lot, I sometimes feel guilty and want to give him a discount because he loops at a quality that helps me maintain my touch even when I don't play. He loves to loop as exercise so I don't discourage it.

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PostPosted: 05 May 2017, 14:05 
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I think I know why I finish my forehand this way. Because I tend too hook, I compensate it by fading the ball slightly which leads to this kind of finish. If I finish the way you showed me, I generate massive sidespin. I tried and saw it tonight at the practice.


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PostPosted: 05 May 2017, 18:01 
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In any case, finish the stroke properly even if you fade the ball. Your racket should still end up facing the left wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KmGN6BRLFw

Part of it, if you need a logical explanation or rather a story, is about being able to swing fast and put heavy spin on the ball with the spin and power in the same direction as the stroke. The way you swing right now will compromise how quickly and confidently you can swing at the ball as your spin potential will be limited. You are stopping too early to loop confidently with heavy spin.

If you want to stop the hook, reduce the sidespin by playing more over the ball than around the side of the ball. If you post video, it is easy to show you that you are pointing your racket downwards or contacting the side of the ball. Nothing wrong with this as long as 1) it is not the extreme right side of the ball and 2) as long as you play over the ball and forward as opposed to playing round the side and to the left. The way I think of it, after I make contact, I release my forearm to snap through to a finishing position facing the left wall or the floor, no matter whether I am fading, hooking or just playing a topspin.

Some sidespin is part of any decent forehand loop. Massive sidespin means you are going round the side too much unless that is what you intend to do.

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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 00:12 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
fastmover wrote:
I will experiment with different finishing positions and see what happens. But so far I have enough unresolved issues with my forehand to deal with so I am not sure what should be the top priority.


I don't think there's many unresolved issues with your forehand. I actually think it's a pretty good stroke already and it's better than 90% of the learning adults I see in clubs in my area. Sure, it can be improved slightly if you really care, but don't think of your shot as a disaster. Get your grip right and try finishing in the position I posted. Let's see where it goes.


The stroke may look OK when doing fixed drills, but in game situations I tend to move my elbow way to far behind my back. Especially when trying to lift heavy backspin. I feel that this exaggerated shoulder motion places too much stress on the shoulder joint which scares me. Although it is more of a footwork issue of taking the ball to close to the body as we figured it out, it is still connected to the forehand shot.


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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 01:44 
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fastmover wrote:

The stroke may look OK when doing fixed drills, but in game situations I tend to move my elbow way to far behind my back. Especially when trying to lift heavy backspin. I feel that this exaggerated shoulder motion places too much stress on the shoulder joint which scares me. Although it is more of a footwork issue of taking the ball to close to the body as we figured it out, it is still connected to the forehand shot.


I don't think that is a footwork issue all by itself, it is partly a failure to anticipate the ball as well as failure to get into position. But more than anything else, that kind of backswing means that you are not turning your shoulders sufficiently to give your self room to turn into the ball. Having your feet pointing outwards and bending knees can be a tremendous help here, anything that makes it easier to rotate the shoulders and the hips comfortably.

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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 01:53 
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NextLevel wrote:

failure to anticipate the ball as well as failure to get into position


If it is not a footwork issue, then what is footwork?


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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 01:59 
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BTW, in the videos I posted in this thread you may see this issue of swinging behind my back, even in 2 & 2 drill sometimes. Is there any lack of shoulder rotation there?


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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 02:14 
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fastmover wrote:
NextLevel wrote:

failure to anticipate the ball as well as failure to get into position


If it is not a footwork issue, then what is footwork?


It depends on how you read my statement. My focus is on anticipation, you are focusing on getting into position.

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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 02:38 
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fastmover wrote:
BTW, in the videos I posted in this thread you may see this issue of swinging behind my back, even in 2 & 2 drill sometimes. Is there any lack of shoulder rotation there?


Shoulder rotation is relative to the quality and placement of the shot you are trying to produce. In your case, it is mostly upper body and because you try to fade the ball, I suspect you are fading down the line mostly vs backspin. All that said, if there is a specific shot you want to discuss, post the video for it.

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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 02:49 
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Maybe this is a better illustration of what NextLevel means by concave vs convex:

Image

Your FH stroke looks more like the path of the left image when it should be more like the right image (the magenta lines).

If your stroke is like the left, you're hitting behind the ball. If your stroke is like the right, you're hitting over the ball.


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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 16:12 
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For the record, I never tried to use the terms concave or convex to explain anything. I just focused on finishing position at least pointing towards the left wall. Again, whether concave or convex is better, I know good players who from my limited perspective use both.

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PostPosted: 06 May 2017, 19:09 
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I know I am barely visible, but any comments on my LP technique are appreciated...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbF1W-e ... e=youtu.be

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PostPosted: 08 May 2017, 17:19 
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@ fastmover

re-watched your video;
your shoulder and hip turn are actually not that bad. I think it's your upward position of the upperbody that is casusing unnecessary strain on the shoulder.
If you bend your knees a little more and bend over with the upperbody a bit more, you'll noticed their is much less stress on the shoulder.

You can simply try this in "shadow-play mode"; first do a backswing/forward swing standing upward and feel the stress on the shoulder. Then do the same swing but with bend knees and upperbody. You'll notice the shoulder rotation being more flexible.

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PostPosted: 08 May 2017, 21:03 
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Lots of top Chinese players have shoulder injuries at some point or another and they bend their knees etc. It's really more about how much stress his technique is putting on the joint and my technique does so too in some ways, though most of my shoulder issues now are related to my rheumatoid arthritis.

There are many ways of getting racket head speed with technique that stresses the shoulder less, you just have to improve your technique in that direction and over time with practice, you will select technique that stresses the shoulder less more often. But it is a step by step process, not something that happens immediately. You work on a few things and over time, it comes together one day.

But I can guarantee you that his current finishing position is putting stress on his shoulder if he is trying to get racket head speed while using it. Finishing that high overuses the upper arm and shoulder.

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