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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 16:44 
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fastmover wrote:
I have a really silly question about the pivot. When I pivot against a push and employ the technique I used in the video with the robot, I get bamboozled. Here is what is going on: when I make the big lunge to the side, shift of my body weight creates a lot of forward momentum, which makes the ball go quite fast even if I don't want it to. Which predictably makes blocking for some of my opponents very easy. So how to pivot against a push and produce ball with moderate speed? If shorten the lunge step, I don't get out of the way of the ball and get cramped which is even worse. I can make a video if it is unclear.


I welcome input on this, but this is what I do.

When I pivot against a push, it's almost always predetermined in my mind based on a third ball set up or if I know my opponent and can Reasonably predict their serve.
For my third ball attacks, I'm primed and ready and as soon as I see their racket angle going where I want, then I'm around the corner.

So then the type of shot I play is also dependant on what my serve was.
If it was heavy under, then I generally spin it with placement and try to get into good position for the next shot.
If it was deep no spin, then I'm planning on playing a power loop and I'm going mainly for as much power as possible and as much spin as long as it's not taking away from the power.
With this shot I'm usually very wide around my BH side and I'm aiming wide to their BH.
In reality, I often hit my opponent or it goes just outside their BH.
With peer level opponents, this shot rarely comes back.
If my serve was side top, and they push, I know it's a pop up and I try to use Brett's discus technique from LTT 47 and since it's often a short pop up, I just use the discus technique and swing hard.
It usually has some left over side spin from my serve and gives a fast ball with an unexpected jump to the side after it hits their side.

So for me, if it's not heavy underspin, then I go for power and spin with some placement, but I'm not trying to hit white lines or their hip.
If I'm not going for power, then I often don't pivot, I try to work on spinning it with my BH.

One thing to add, if my third ball set up worked primarily as I expected and I made the pivot, but if my opponent made a better quality shot than usual, then no matter what serve I went with, I'll go for as heavy spin as I can muster and try for good placement as well.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2017, 23:38 
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I am talking more about technique rather tactics. Suppose that I want to play the shot Brett talks (and shows) about in LTT46 starting from 3:35. The problem is that at this moment when I pivot I always automatically play something like this:



So I wonder how should I modify it to play a shot more like in LTT46. I am swinging a bit shallow that also contributes to the issue, but I feel like the biggest thing is that the weight transfer makes the ball go forward a lot.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 03:28 
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fastmover wrote:
I am swinging a bit shallow that also contributes to the issue, but I feel like the biggest thing is that the weight transfer makes the ball go forward a lot.


Try doing this against a ball that comes out of the table just a little bit. You'll learn you need to spin it up more and I think that will force more brush and a less shallow shot.

In that video you are pretty much just going all out on a pretty easy ball. It's good you can execute that, but what if the ball isn't so easy?

In the videos you've shown lately, I've yet to see one forehand loop that actually ends at the correct position. LTT7. I know if I was playing you, I'd just give you heavy backspin and watch you dump those balls into the net. Lots of players will use that tactic.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 04:31 
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wilkinru wrote:

In that video you are pretty much just going all out on a pretty easy ball. It's good you can execute that, but what if the ball isn't so easy?


Why do you think it is an easy ball? In fact, it is a quite heavy push, and this is the reason why I need to hit it hard. The problem is that the pivot movement somehow directs all the energy forward and I don't know how to vary it.


wilkinru wrote:
In the videos you've shown lately, I've yet to see one forehand loop that actually ends at the correct position. LTT7. I know if I was playing you, I'd just give you heavy backspin and watch you dump those balls into the net. Lots of players will use that tactic.


Did you watch those?

fastmover wrote:
Here is an attempt to practice pivot against robot. It is incredibly difficult to do so without cheating of moving too early. Even if I set the speed to bare minimum enough to clear the net, moving at the right time is tough as the ball appears fast out of nowhere. I had many false starts with this attempt. Feel free to criticise.



fastmover wrote:



On most of these shots I somehow unbend the eblow, though the arm never fully straightens. I didn't try to unbend it consciously, just relaxed it. I feel like it is big progress for me. Hopefully I will be able to play a shot like that against faster balls before this year ends.



The thing happening with my pivot forehands right now is that I use a completely different footwork pattern and hit the shot on the move. I never consciously used this combination of movement and a stroke before. This shot feels very different from a forehand hit from a static position. So often things wack off and I struggle to adapt it to different situations.


Last edited by fastmover on 20 Aug 2017, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 04:50 
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Talking about finish positions: here is the side by side of the racket right after hitting the shot, Brett's from LTT7 and mine from the video above. But I do finish higher on regular forehands against backpsin, so this is a sort of shallow swing.

http://s1079.photobucket.com/user/fastm ... g.html?o=0


Last edited by fastmover on 20 Aug 2017, 11:23, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 10:46 
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It really doesn't look like your weight transfer is what is making the ball go too fast and flat. It may be that you are still jammed a little bit. My suggestion is to go for a wider angle off the bh side. You will have to spin the ball more to bring it down that short, and it limits the blocker's options. When you want to have this kind of contact you might be better off going for the winner down the line.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 10:59 
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BRS wrote:
It may be that you are still jammed a little bit. My suggestion is to go for a wider angle off the bh side.


In the end I want to learn to automatically put this shot to a wide BH side when going cross court. But as I said, I struggle to control it, too many things happen too quickly at the same time.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 11:23 
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fastmover wrote:
BRS wrote:
It may be that you are still jammed a little bit. My suggestion is to go for a wider angle off the bh side.


In the end I want to learn to automatically put this shot to a wide BH side when going cross court. But as I said, I struggle to control it, too many things happen too quickly at the same time.


So that's just needing more practice reps, isn't it?


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 12:04 
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It definitely needs more practice, I just want to make sure I practice the right things. At this moment I pivot against a push in the same way I do against a topspin ball. I don't know if it is a good thing or not. There are certainly moments when playing the shot this way makes sense, but as wilkinru said, it is probably not what I should aim for in most cases.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2017, 12:38 
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And if you don't understand what I am talking about, look at three shots in the video below: at 2:17, 2:34 2:47. All three are pivots against push but all are completely different. For example, at 2:17 there is no lateral weight transfer at all, while in 2:47 it is huge. So against a push, what kind of shot & footwork should I mostly train and use in matches: 2:17 or 2:47?



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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017, 00:40 
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Some more examples. Freitas used to play this spinny forehand from BH corner very often. I guess since he spins the ball when it is falling, he has more time to get into position and does not need to get out of the ball's way by lunging to the side.



And a Monteiro's fast pivot. Is he swinging shallow?



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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017, 01:06 
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Red Roar wrote:
fastmover wrote:
I have a really silly question about the pivot. When I pivot against a push and employ the technique I used in the video with the robot, I get bamboozled. Here is what is going on: when I make the big lunge to the side, shift of my body weight creates a lot of forward momentum, which makes the ball go quite fast even if I don't want it to. Which predictably makes blocking for some of my opponents very easy. So how to pivot against a push and produce ball with moderate speed? If shorten the lunge step, I don't get out of the way of the ball and get cramped which is even worse. I can make a video if it is unclear.


I welcome input on this, but this is what I do.

When I pivot against a push, it's almost always predetermined in my mind based on a third ball set up or if I know my opponent and can Reasonably predict their serve.
For my third ball attacks, I'm primed and ready and as soon as I see their racket angle going where I want, then I'm around the corner.

...



It all makes sense I just wonder how a spinny forehand pivot against a push should look like.


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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017, 07:36 
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LTT79 and DTT13 are now avialable on ttEDGE.com

LTT79 is my most significant video. If you try the move and aren't sure, Platinum Members can send me a quick video and I'll let them know. There will be lots of videos about all the different shots and the relevance of the hips.

DTT13 is a good drill for improving your backhand play in a match.

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017, 16:08 
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Brett, does this mean you use your hips for the backhand topspin? I cant wait for the next videos!


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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2017, 18:48 
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maurice101 wrote:
Brett, does this mean you use your hips for the backhand topspin? I cant wait for the next videos!


Yeah Maurice. Next week is backhand.

Do I owe you an email re Melbourne training? Feel like I might.

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